Safe Speed Forums

Among the many advantages afforded to a cyclist, is our ability to hear the twos coming up behind us well in advance, enabling our stopping in a suitable position to allow the emergency vehicle through unimpeded. Fancy that.

Note the awareness of the FA, aurally or otherwise, earlier or later was not a factor in the decision, despite your attempt to imply so by selective quoting.

One of the many advantages of cars and motorcycles over push-bikes is the inclusion of mirrors for rearward observation, allowing one to constantly be aware of what is behind.



Like the sort of tests one would have to excel at to become a Mensan and a military pilot for example?

Making yourself look silly again, aren't you. Try constructively debating, rather than attempting, and failing miserably, to point-score.

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

and then



This is what's a bit odd about this "debate". What weepej was agreeing with was this:


so, for somebody so very, very clever, your reply just looked a little, how can I put it, stupid.

I have to profoundly disagree with you JB. Robin's reply was not a little stupid. It was extremely stupid. He seems unable to understand that one's response varies according to whether or not the appliance is on a call. But the fact that he is reduced to picking up on typos rather illustrates the inadequacy of his basic argument.

Military intelligence truly is the best example of an oxymoron.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

You big meanie!

Oh dear fellows, I fear you may both have made yourselves look even more monumentally stupid, not to mention trollish.





So, tell me, which of the two options do you think weepej was referring to, that even if the vehicle behind was not a fire engine he would stop at the kerbside and allow it to pass, or even if it was a fire engine on an emergency call-out he'd take a position to prevent it overtaking and continue through the pinch point?

Now I wasn't certain, hence why I asked him for clarification, but given his previous stance on the issue it's certainly a reasonable deduction that he would not, "as a London cyclist of 20 years, covering 100+ miles a week", be pulling to the kerb for any and all following traffic. Do you see?

As for picking up on typos davey, I wasn't the one who started that in this thread, now was I!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

Trying to return to a sensible debate:


If it is on a call, I would either stop and wait before the pinch, or I would consider hopping onto the pavement if it aids flow, being very wary of other road users acting a bit funny.

A question to all:
I think it fair to say no one would be inclined to adopt primary when it hinders a emergency vehicle on call - am I right?

If not on call, I would treat it as I would any other large vehicle.


At any real pinch points, I generally don't adopt primary positions until I am quite close to them meaning less than 5 seconds away; certainly not 10.
Like I said earlier: obvious glances (you have to anyway: "lifesaver"), a tactical pan, and even an indication of intention (often not necessary, but always advisable) has always been enough for me to gain my desired position.

If I reckon we would arrive at the pinch simultaneously then at that time I concluded that I would be ahead, so I would likely adopt primary. My exact threshold for adopting/yielding would depend on differential speeds (I would certainly consider waiting for higher differentials).
I would certainly yield position when approaching another pinch point 10 seconds away (100m at 22mph = 10 seconds). Less than 3 seconds and I won't yield, and I'll endeavour to match traffic speed over that distance.

Judging by the videos of other cyclists, including the one discussed here, I suspect some would simply remain in primary between the pinches over distance of the given example (100m); would my suspicion be correct?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Emergency response vehicles on call sometimes use the blues and not the twos.

Vehicles usually have multiple rear view mirrors!



Should cycling proficiency testing be mandatory?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

By banning RobinXe? Good move.


Not according to Robin. According to his reading of the thread, Weepje would give no concessions to emergency vehicles. Of course another, more sensible, reading of Weepje's posting is that he took not obstructing emergency vehicles as so obvious as not to require qualifying his pronouncements with that fact.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Nor was it me, Bobby-boy.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Good for you, would you like a medal? I'm sure I can spare one!

As for weepej's comment, I asked him for clarification, so let's wait for the response. I detailed the potential interpretations, do you see another, given the "whether it's a fire engine or not" comment? The set of vehicles on the road that are not fire engines is pretty large, wouldn't you say?

Do you want everyone who rationally and intellectually challenges your strident assertions to be banned?

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

I already have one, thank you very much. But I only wear it at the Service of Remembrance.


I don't want anyone who who rationally challenges me to be banned. But I would like you to be banned.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

This thread is temporarily locked. It should be open again in a few hours.

Edit: the thread is opened.

Please can everyone ensure their responses are civil and constructive.

no B&T's.
Good, so would I, although the Fire Engine could, with no oncoming traffic, go around both islands on the opposite side of the road.
OK.
Would you mind answering another question please:
Out of the following good riding / driving principals behaviours in which order do you 'rate' their value, where 1 is unnecessary, and 5 is very necessary (3 is therefore about 50:50).
Awareness (of all about you), Space (around you), Observation, Consideration -toward others, Consideration of threats/hazards, Anticipation, Attitude, Courtesy, Risk Management, and Good Judgement.
[feel free to add a few words against each one if that helps with your explanation.]
I was simply providing you with information about the local environmental situation.
Actually there is a lot you can tell about every road user the more time you can observe them, but that is for another thread for sure.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Frankly, I'm not going to dignify you with one.

Is that "No blues and twos", or "No; blues and twos"?

For whom? Are you sure you don't mean Bikeability training?

Whether it's a fire engine or any other type of vehicle is irrelevant then, yes?

Of course, but there's no need for me to make the fire engine do that and potentially create problems for others on the road, so I would stop, as I said before.

Awareness - 5, Space - 5, Observation - 5, Consideration - towards others - 5, Consideration of threats/hazards - 5, Anticipation - 5, Attitude - 5, Courtesy - 5, Risk Management - 5, Good Judgement - 5. Sorry I can't really place these into an order of priority, they are all necessary all the time. I think this is true of driving as well.

Ah good, I thought you might have been presenting me with an option to hop on the pavement and continue riding.

I agree, but you never actually know until their manoevure is over. What did RobinXe say about assumptions?

Thank you Steve, an all-round sensible post. I think your general approach is very similar to mine. There may be minor (trivial) differences in timing - I have never timed my approaches to pinch-points, but the principles are exactly the same.

And with that the thread has run its course. I think that Steve's post sums up the consensus of how you would expect sensible cyclists to behave. And I suspect that most of the participants in the debate, with the exception of Robin - who takes a very hard line on obstructions , are really singing from the same hymn sheet if not in the same key

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown