Safe Speed Forums

I could add this to umpteen threads on this topic. Claire/Steve/Roger/etc can always move I suppose

Anyway - an ex racing pro tells CW that there are




Hmm C R of Herne Bay says it as it is :clap2:



He then writes that

He might add that in the 50s he did ride to work from the West End to Croydon and in those days traffic was much lighter, but road markings and road discipline were just as hazardous But his fellow cyclists and he himself followed the Highway Code as closely as other road users at the time did.



Overall sensible rant.


I have placed what to my mind is a salient point for discussion in italics. But this chap hits COAST targets on other issues too.

Way to go fella

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I was under the impression that going through red lights, with or without cursory glances or to turn left, was already "banned"!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

City of London police seem to think so, I regularly see them booking cyclists for red light jumping.

Naturally I'd rather see them concentrating on booking people doing things that actually kill and seriously injure people round there.

Surely they are being booked with the same zeal as is applied to motorcyclists who fail to wear a helmet, or drivers who fail to belt up.
It is for their own protection, so it would be argued (by the police) that they ARE saving lives and preventing serious injury!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

"Why aren't you out catching real criminals!?"

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

My bit of evidence-based argumentation for this thread: a TfL report on research into this very topic. I know it's specifically about London, but most of such research seems to focus on the Metrolops. (I haven't seen a TfBolton or a TfManchester.)

OK, 16% is too many, and it's good to hear of something being done to discourage them (despite the ongoing arguments that it is often actually safer than waiting at the light - also here), but it is a far cry from the "The general practice of jumping red lights".

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"That which is asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without argument.” - Julian Assange

I have no problem with cyclists ignoring red lights as long as they do it safely and realise the risks. Most cyclists I see in town, including the ones getting booked, were not endangering themselves or others. They were either getting a head start on the traffic or crossing while all traffic was held on red.

The only thing cyclists do that really irks me is a lack of observation. The worst are the hooray henrys in suits and poshe shoes on the barclays hire bikes, wobbling in and our of traffic. They are a real danger in many cases. However the cardinal sin most cyclists are guilty of (sorry if this is an unfair generalisation but as far as I can see) is a fatal lack of observation. As a motorcyclist we are trained from day one to shoulder check. Before commencing to change direction or under take a manouvere we are instructed to check our mirrors and over our cshoulder. Most push bikes are not equipped with mirrors and yet I hardly ever see a cyclist turning their head before changing direction. Usually they just swing straight into my path.

I think in most red light cases the police are just enforcing the letter of the law to the benefit of the treasury. I am against any proposed compulsary helmet law for push bikes, registering push bikes or insurance - push biking (although not much of a cyclist myself - beyond a BMX) is one of the last free and unregulated forms of transport in this country and with common sense, courtesy and consideration it can continue to be so. I do wish they'd shoulder check though.

I have no problem with drivers ignoring red lights as long as they do it safely and realise the risks.

Discuss!

The problem with your plea is contained in it. People have no commonsense, particularly children who are encouraged to cycle by the Government.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I have had to jump reds occasionally when the sensor has not picked up my bike and I have been sat there for an age watching the other lights go through their sequence. I can't be the only one either.

Interesting point, Malcolm. I understand that sadly a lot of people are lacking common sense or even the most basic awareness of their surroundings and actions. However, a car jumping a red has, in general terms, the potential to cause a lot more harm, serious injury or death. A cyclist has the potential to cause a serious accident by jumping a red, true, but to a lesser extent. The risk when a cyclist jumps a red will mainly be to themselves. It has to be said that most cyclists I see going through red lights seem to do it carefully and exercising caution. I would have said it is good for the crime/ticket statistics not to mention the coffers to enforce the letter of the law here rather than to view each case based on common sense. I have been riding (on a motorbike) with a friend who went through a red without seeing it. He is an experienced rider who made a mistake and he explained this politely to the officier who took account of his reasons and gave him a verbal warning. Maybe that directly contradicts the preceding sentence but I would have said this copper's attitude was the right one. Had my friend appeared like a lunatic or given the officer a hard time for stopping him or been unable to account for his actions (in this case no more than a school boy error) then I imagine the outcome would have been more than a stern talking to. I often see cyclicts getting tickets and the ones I have seen going through reds for the most part, as mentioned, have done it cautiously and to either get ahead of the traffic (where the real danger for them lies) or to take advantage of the cars being held up. I am not saying that cyclists should be given carte blanche to ignore the highway code but that there are areas where they are far more likely to get into trouble than jumping a red (if they do it safely). It may seen contradictory to moan about cyclists' lack of observation and then state that I have seen them go safely through reds but I am speaking in general terms. I have seen cyclists with impeccable observation just as I have seen those charge through reds as if they were immortal and very nearly end up in the morgue as a result.

If the government are training children to cycle, which they have been since I was at school, how come most of London's cyclists have no clue about the most basic survival skills like observation?

As for the last part, the powers that be are unable to regulate anything. Everything is seen in terms of a revenue stream or the bottom line alone. I shudder to think of all the new regulations, fines and red tape they would love to impose on cyclists. I do not trust the government or the *&%$ in Europe to have a balanced, sensible approach to regulating anything other than their bank balance. The amount of legislation etc. that seems to infest every part of our lives, as inexorable as it is insidious, implemented ostensibly in the interests of safe guarding our own personal safety, really makes me feel for future generations where presumably any joy or freedom will have been regulated into obscurity. It's a sad state of affairs. One at odds with my personal philosophy. So, yes, a culture of common sense, courtesy and consideration should be cultivated instead of merely regulating something that at the moment anyone is free to enjoy reasonably unhindered. I am not saying it would be easy or even achievable but it would be infinitely preferable to the legislative approach.