Safe Speed Forums

http://www.expressandstar.com/artman/pu ... _58209.php

Driver, 16, dies as car hits speed camera

May 8, 2004, 11:25

A 16-year-old died when he lost control of his high-powered car and hit a speed camera in Great Barr today. Police say the car was not stolen.

The BMW first struck a lamp post on the central reservation in Newton Road before hitting the camera. No other vehicle was involved.

Firefighters were called to rescue the trapped victim while paramedics tried to revive him but he was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police have not yet said how the victim, who has not been named but was from Great Barr, came to be driving the vehicle.

The accident happened just before 2.40am.

A reconstruction has been carried out and the vehicle taken away for forensic tests. Police press officer Sarah Astbury said officers would examine CCTV foot-age from the speed camera.

The victim was driving towards Scott Arms when the accident happened near Grove Vale Avenue, waking residents who today spoke of their shock.

Householder Bridget Bor-gazzi said: "There are al-ways accidents here. The traffic gets up to a very high speed. It is a very bad road."

Another resident, who did not wish to be named, said: "I couldn't believe what had happened."

Councillor Martyn Smith, who lives nearby, said: "This is a great shame. People do drive too fast along the road, it is a well known fact."
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And if the speed camera had not been there?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

My freind was killed under a SAFETY camera in 2002. Whilst his bike was going through the measure road markings

A vehicle turned right across his path, the camera did not prevent this accident.

So much for safety cameras.

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Steve

Why was a 16 year old driving a BMW? Surely he shouldn't even have been able to drive, unless he was 'receiving the higher bracket of disability allowance', or something along those lines.

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

The Government have activly reduced Traffic Police and replaced them with Speed cameras.

The Speed cameras are not able to detect unlicensed drivers, so they know they have a better chance of getting away with it.

which is why we have 16 yr olds driving on our roads.

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Steve

hi all,

notice the knee-jerk reaction to the speed issue. Lets look at the facts:

(1) 16 yr old-not even entitled to a provisional with little or no driving experience.

(2) At the wheel of a powerful rear-wheel drive car (that's assuming it wasn't a 316i)

(3) the camera being there made no difference to the accident as the scams can't spot these loonies on the road so the "horrified residents" haven't a leg to stand on when making ill informed judgements about speed being a major issue.

Andrew

This depends on how deeply you want to go. On the face of it, I suspect that a vehicle being driven dangerously by an unqualified driver would have passed harmlessly over the spot where the speed camera would have been and impacted the next obstruction (wall, street furniture, etc.) with potentially fatal consequences. One could even argue that the speed camera, by stopping the progress of the BMW, potentially saved the lives of pedestrians who could have been in the vicinity.

More deeply, had the speed camera (and indeed all speed cameras) not existed, the existence of police officers who have been displaced by PC Gatso may have provided a deterrent to the chap driving the car in the first place.

Who knows?

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Will

True. But the rate of reduction of fatality risk over time is truly startling.



from: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/inattention.html more on: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/braking.html

This graph applies (as an approximation) in many accident situations. An out of control car will deaccelerate at a similar rate when going fully sideways even if the brakes are not applied.

It follows that a more distant obstruction will frequently pose much less of a fatality risk.

The global point is really that putting strong poles at the road side will result in deaths. If the poles aren't there, no one will be killed by the poles.

I don't believe that speed cameras will kill many people in this way - but then "if it saves one life" is an argument frequently used but speed camera proponents.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It's interesting (and depressing) how many of these high-profile crashes turn out to involve unlicensed or disqualified drivers.

I understand about 25% of all fatal crashes involve an unlicensed driver, yet they probably account for only 1 or 2% of all mileage.

Surely making a major effort to get these people off the road would yield far more of a safety dividend than ever more cameras.

Regards,

Peter

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

That's one h*ll of an assumption. There is absolutely no evidence that the car was skidding or even braking. For all we know, the car could have been accelerating, which would turn your graph on its head! About the only thing that we can say here is that the driver was under-age for a driving license and that the crash occurred. It is reasonable to assume that the driver was not qualified, but anything beyond that is unreasonable. We don't even know whether the crash was because of driver error. Although unlikely, it is possible that brake failure simulataneous with a stuck throttle had occurred.

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Will

I think I'm right in saying that Paul was talking in generalities about the danger of putting hard unresisting poles at the roadside!

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

He probably was (Paul?) However, this thread is about one specific collision and Paul's question was:(my emphasis)
IMO, making general claims about street furniture in this way is about as valid making general claims about speed and arriving at the "speed kills" slogan.

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Will

As Mike[F] said, I'd moved on to generalisations. Note the wording.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

What is the likelihood then that this was mummy's/daddy's car 'borrowed' for the journey??

What if, rather than killing himself, the said youngster had merely been pinged by a scamera, and registered keeper mummy/daddy got the NIP through the post?

Would they have subjected their boy to the full force of the law, or would they have taken the points for him??

Thankfully, our current road policing policy has of course opened up this option to rebellious teenagers and their parents...