Safe Speed Forums

Entrapment
over the last five days I have been made aware of police vehicles hidden out of line off site one in Sunbury and one yesterday on the A3003

Whilst coming over a brow of a bridge across the M3 a slow moving vehicle was backing up traffic and a fast driver over taking on the inside As I allowed the vehicle to go I pulled out and progressed to get by unlucky there sitting in the dip in the broken chevron zone was a camera van no waring signs nothing but was blocking the zoned area for access to the right .

On the A303 there was a lorry in the fast lane and a vehicle in the inside lane no were for me to go no alarms on my sat nav, or road angel down in the distant was a lay by with a large lorry then all the vehicles start braking and I had to brake hard to avoid these vehicle the reason pulled in close bebind the lorry was an unmarked police car passenger door open hidden behind the door was the office with the camera no HI VI vest etc .
I would like to know is this permisable as they seem to put them selves at risk and drivers by this type of operation any views or comments of the constructive nature Im concerned I may have been hit by these two covert dispicable actions that were in my opion unsafe and unlawfull and dangerous to other road users .

Yes perfectly legal and acceptable,I suppose the answer is don't do anything wrong and you will not have anything to fear,like 99% of drivers out there. The camera van's have rules to follow in relation to signs and flashing orange beacons on top.
Stephen

Legal then, but almost certainly not good for police/public relations.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

99% have nothing to fear? Could that mean only 1% ever speed?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

It was a figure of speech,but if you know any better then please let us know,I used to bother about what the public used to think of me when I sat at the mouth of the junction monitoring traffic,and being accused of hiding,but now I couldn't care less as it's the ones who break the law that take exception to not being able to see you rather than the legal one's.

Just like the one's who drive along the road and don't see the camera or brake at the corroboration marks where there is no camera and over react by braking causing danger to everyone else then blaming the camera for causing the incident,I mean come on whats that all about. It's the same when they drive along a road and see a police car parked up next thing they brake so hard that they nearly take there front number plate off on the road. Just my opinion though but no doubt someone will say why it's out of order blah blah
Stephen

That's a dangerous assumption! I think it might be more likely that you don't get to hear whether or not the law abiding ones take exception! Speaking as one who hasn't been caught in that way, you could assume that I am:
(a) law abiding and
(b) I don't take exception to the activity.

I can assure you that neither is necessarily always the case! It depends largely on the circumstances. Sometimes my observational skills manage to spot you, other times, I have to confess that it's sheer luck and nothing more. Somewhere out there I'm sure there's a scamera with my name on it!



Yes, I've seen that happen. No accident on that occasion, but a whole series of brake lights and a few rather rapid and un-planned lane changes! Frankly, that could have been me in the middle of that lot. It was only by luck that it wasn't. I'd have been doing a similar speed at that point, because I (and presumably all those other drivers) felt it to be a perfectly reasonable speed for the conditions!

I think there's a very big difference between enforcing the law to keep the roads safe and enforcing the law simply "because its the law". I think your lack of concern for the views of the people that you police speaks volumes about the level to which the relationship between the police and the policed has sunk.

:welcome : redbins

The Cambridge Dictionary states that Entrapment is :
the practice of causing someone to do something they would not usually do by tricking them
The police have been accused of using entrapment to bring charges against suspects.
I am a little unclear as to exactly where the camera van is located in relation to the 3 lane highway? Can you give a Google location at all please?
One cannot rely on gadgets to locate all Police patrols and activities. Speed Camera van locations have to be approved by
the local Councils and so hence how Sat Nav Companies can obtain their data and so inform others of the known areas of operation. This also explains how some Companies are more up to date than others are.
However Police Patrols can be (and rightly so) anywhere and as one ought to always be travelling appropriate to conditions and try to be Law Abiding and apply all COAST driving attributes early observation of all your environment becomes second nature.
[COAST - Concentration, Consideration Courtesy, Observation, Awareness, Attitude, Anticipate, Space (to react) your safety space, and time to plan your journey and The Two Second rule (between you and car in front)].
One always hopes that if you have erred a little that all good Police patrols will be potentially understanding to personal circumstances during a chat if they have decided to pull you and discuss matters.

There have been a number of concerns shown all over the UK of speed camera van locations being in ever more dangerous or otherwise illegal locations, taking their areas of operation to the extreme. This may not necessarily be those of Police operations please understand. The Police have powers to operate where necessary whereas speed camera vans do not usually have such 'freedoms'. Some areas are trying to have locations along whole lengths of roads but this is generally not the case. The local Council will be able to advise you of approved areas.
If a Police person is operating a speed camera inappropriately (against guidelines and the standards agreed with the Home Office & ACPO) then usually any cases brought will be dropped, but this is rare than common. If you are concerned as you are then a complaint to the local Chief Constable may be in order but they may have been there carrying out an ANPR check. I'd advise that you call the local force to that area and ask what they were doing on that day, time & location. You may find that is was just as simple as this.
People after passing speed cameras are often stopping to ask if they have been targeted or even may expect a NIP (Notice of Intended Prosecution), people do not want to wait the 14 days (if you are the registered keeper) 6mths if your employer (etc) owns the vehicle) to hear so ask right away.
For any speed camera van to be prosecuting others when it is in a dangerous location will be considered appalling and the Council and Police can expect many complaints.

You say the police vehicle was in a layby which on the face of it sounds safe and sensible, although an officer that is very near the edge of the carriageway may well not be. Can you be sure that they were not filming for another purpose or was it definitely a 'speed camera' like and LTi2020 ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I don't believe that you don't care. I assume that you have had a hard day ?
There are many people around here, myself included that want to Police to care very much about the public that they serve and try to protect !
Do you have a lot of education about how the 'public 'behave'' ? Might this be influencing you in your response here?
Since we know that is it approximately 15% of motorists who are above the 85th %ile and who are travelling higher than the 'norm' and who are considered to be, experts, reckless or some manner of exceptional circumstance.
There is a lot of psychology and also 'sense' for some to go a lot slower past a speed camera. The obvious brake and speed off is a typical frustrated human reaction to something that is seriously dissapproved of and the only way many feel that they can demonstrate that disapproval. There is also the problem for many that many signs showing the speed limit can be wrong, and so to protect their licenses and so their livelihoods, so by going 10mph less they consider themselves safe, and ensuring that they will not be subjected to a technical infringement.
Do you too feel helpless to try and resolve these types of behaviour ?
No one wants any motorist getting so frustrated or even infuriated with, any political system that is perceived with such resentment and distaste. Considering the 10000's that receive so many NIP's, help to demonstrate to the public that 'speeding' cannot be that dangerous.....

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

very sneaky Stephen all our unmarked traffic cars had furry pink dice for id markers

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now retired

I have never seen a scam van with its ''lights flashing'. I often read 'they are clearly visible and marked with camera signs' but I am sure that the majority are grazing for speed awareness revenues some distance ahead of where realistically that 'visbility' might come into play.....

The 'public support' of scams is based on the ideal that they be used to reduce accidents and typically people refer to thier support of deployment around vulnerable road users. That would be in 30mph zones then.... That is the core of any 'support' mobile scam may enjoy. Unfortunately they are ACTUALLY deployed (more often than not) in a covert fashion on major roads, where any benefit they might offer is non-existant!

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Enjoying the twilight years of personal freedom in the UK (and my M3) :)