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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 02:12 
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Daily Star - here
Aaron Tinney Daily Star wrote:
1.2M Brits A Year Admit Driving While Stoned
By Aaron Tinney 10th June 2011

Britain’s drug-driving plague was highlighted last year when singer George Michael was jailed
MORE than a million Brits drug-drive because they are certain police will not catch them.
Two-thirds of drugged-up motorists get behind the wheel under the effects of cocaine, ecstasy and cannabis.
The other third are smashed on substances including magic mushrooms and speed.

Britain’s drug-driving plague was highlighted last year when singer George Michael, 47, was jailed. He was sent to prison for eight weeks for being stoned on cannabis and prescription pills when he ploughed his Range Rover into a north London shop.

But a study by Direct Line showed most druggie motorists, like Michael, do not think illegal substances affect their driving. And many claim it is easy to outwit police.

Direct Line insurance director Andy Goldby said: “Drug-driving is as irresponsible as drink-driving. Drugs severely impair the ability of drivers. Thousands are now admitting they have been involved in an accident while high.”

Julie Cooper, 41, whose daughter Louise, 23, was killed in Essex by pot-smoking trucker Lee Baker in 2008, said: “Anyone who thinks drugs are harmless should look at their kids and imagine them bleeding to death the way Louise did.”
Yet another sad and tragic effect of speed cameras then. By removing police patrols with ineffective speed cameras the risk of being stopped is far, far less. We must see a return to proper, well trained police patrols to the roads, we know they work and we know people sooner or later get stopped & caught. People can have faith in a system where we know that those that fly in the face of the Law will be found & punished.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 08:58 
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How much research has been done on the effects of recreational drugs (other than alcohol) on the ability to drive safely?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:41 
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I don't know, but perhaps we could turn that one on its head and say that what we need are a whole range of specific offences like "driving on weed", "driving on heroin", "driving on ecstasy" and so on. We could even exempt certain categories of driver from certain types of drugs too, if it suited the State's purposes! :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 13:02 
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It all boils down to advising on best practice to all road users, and to have proper enforcement by well trained police officers - what else can possibly work as well ?
An officer can quickly see that a road user is below par and stop and question ...
Whilst there maybe devices to 'prove' a certain capability to operate a motor vehicle it may not work for bicycles or horses etc. I personally would not like to know that some gadget 'approves' or sees me competent !
Perhaps if someone has been caught once then maybe for a year they have a 'device', but don't I recall reading recently that some chap worked around such a device for DD ?
I agree one traffic BIB can only do 'so much' but every single person who drives by them is sent a reminder that they are about and that they can and will act immediately and that 'message' is powerful, reasonable fair and just.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 16:49 
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How about an on the spot fine for anyone seen with a fag in their mouth or hand whilst driving just in case it is drugs or affects their driving ability and concentration?..... :twisted:

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 00:18 
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A few interesting bits and pieces here:

http://www.thesite.org/drinkanddrugs/dr ... ectdriving

TRL has done a bit on it. They have used simulators and compared people before and after impairment under the same simulator conditions.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 03:31 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
How much research has been done on the effects of recreational drugs (other than alcohol) on the ability to drive safely?
I have seen various sections on this over recent years. Certainly there is a fair bit out there, a quick look reveals this :
Scotland Gov - Investigates the prevalence and social context of drug driving in Scotland here Pdf doc of which I see a statement : The views expressed in this report are those of the researchers and do not necessarily represent those of the Department or Scottish Ministers. Carried out by : Katherine Myant, Steven Hope - MORI Scotland
Prof James McIntosh, Tommy O’Brien, Prof Neil McKeganey - Centre for Drugs Misuse Research, University of Glasgow
Prof Steve Stradling, Transport Research Institute, Napier University

The Government's Response to the Reports by Sir Peter North CBE QC and the Transport Select Committee on Drink and Drug Driving
here 21.3.11
This is the Government's response to the independent report on drink and drug driving in Great Britain commissioned by the previous Government from Sir Peter North in December 2009. The report was submitted to Ministers in May 2010 and published on 16 June 2010. It is also a response to the report of the Transport Select Committee, 'Drink and Drug Driving Law', which was published on 2 December 2010 following its inquiry into Sir Peter's main recommendations.
Pdf report doc - The Government's Response to the Reports by Sir Peter North CBE QC and the Transport Select Committee on Drink and Drug Driving (Pg 38 + for Drugs)

Potential solutions to approaches to help change behaviours can be found here. Especially interesting as it looks at why prior influential messages have failed through mis-interpretations of the core message was confusing or disbelieved. (The belief that they are a good or better driver when on drugs")
Makes you wonder why the 'false belief' / Dutch courage concept was not used! Still it still can be of course. - Slow reactions or quicker? (is that possible?).
This massage also failed as there was little belief that any police interactions would ever happen so conviction of use was also low.
Difficulty in the Police actually telling if people are on drugs was a big failure in the message too, as most believed that another person needs to be up close before they have any chance of telling. (According to this report from users).
From what I can see it completely lacked any 'self-interest' aspect whatsoever and that is key to really helping to motivate people to act 'appropriately' (as desired).

Asking why do people see that the positive incentives outweigh any potential deterrent (prosecution). So if we can understand why people seek to find 'sensations' from the drugs, or what is lacking from their lives to want to seek this in the first place whether it is a form of 'escapism' or to find fun, or to take a risk, each reason needs to be addressed and resolutions found.
At what level is heightening one's 'senses' when travelling harmful and what analysis identifies that negative level?

Independent North Review of Drink and Drug Driving Law here
DRUG DRIVING TESTING MECHANISMS USED GLOBALLY - David Battye
This Paper looks at the current ways which police can detect for motorists who are driving on drugs. It looks at the testing procedures, and the devices used. It also examines the effects of driving on various drugs looks at the research that has taken place on an international level.
Which specifically states :
"European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction (EMCDDA) published a detailed response to the issue of drug driving.
Studies on the effects of psychoactive substances on driving performance suggest that while both illicit and therapeutic drugs can affect driving, the effects and extent can vary greatly from substance to substance.
The latest research suggests that:
- cannabis can reduce performance;
- benzodiazepines are generally impairing;
- of the opioids, heroin can impair severely, methadone less so, and buprenorphine even less;
The data for stimulant drugs such as cocaine, amphetamines and ecstasy are more mixed, but suggest that high doses are associated with impairment.
An objective measure for impairment for each drug, similar to the blood alcohol concentration, remains elusive.

Definition of ‘Drug Driving’ according to EMCDDA:
“Driving under the influence”: Depending on the country’s laws, this may refer to a driver who has: a measured reduction of cognitive or psychomotor skills, impulsivity; or more than a defined amount of the drug in the blood, expected to produce such effects at that level; or any trace of drugs in the blood.

Snapshot of Key Issues:
Few countries have reliable statistics on the prevalence of driving under the influence of drugs.
Obtaining sound scientific evidence on behavioural effects, prevalence and accident risk is difficult with the available data. Many of the studies have small samples and it is often difficult to generalise from their results.
Various psychoactive medicines, which might or might not be legally prescribed and consumed, can impair driving skills.
Currently, police experience considerable difficulty with the accurate and rapid identification of drug driving at the roadside.

Barriers to Building up Scientific Evidence:
More than 30 studies on the prevalence of drugs among drivers have been carried out across Europe since 1999. However, these studies have used various methods and sampled different groups of drivers, making it difficult to draw overall conclusions.

New international guidance for standardisation of study designs have been drawn up with the assistance of the EMCDDA and the European Commission’s DG Transport. It takes into account differences between countries’ legislation and testing policies, providing over a hundred recommendations subdivided into areas of behaviour, epidemiology and toxicology.
...also
Motorists using Psychoactive Medicines:
Psychoactive medicines, such as painkillers, sedatives, antidepressants and antihistamines can sometimes have considerable effects on the capabilities of drivers.
Results from studies suggest that drivers may be using these drugs either for medical reasons following prescription, or misusing them with illicit substances."

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 07:56 
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Thanks, Claire. Nearly as much research on this topic as there is on the dangers of using telephones whilst driving :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 08:52 
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Your welcome.
There is much more material about, and this is the most recent and in essence most valid that I can lay my hands on, but I have seen ongoing research over recent years.
There is still a lot of work to be done as the current release by Gov shows from it's latest March 2011 report shows, that being based on the 09 report.
The work complied on what has and has not worked so far is in depth and makes most interesting reading, certainly they are trying to get the message home.
It clearly and directly shows the immediate and urgent need for police patrols to return to the streets asap.
The need for drug analysis research and how this works with regular drugs and whether we use the saliva (AUST) method is questionable. Duty nurses in cell process sections of Police Stations can clearly obtain human samples for later drug analysis, but it states clearly that FMI nor nurses can medically assess if someone is or is not on drugs. Then the ruling out of standard medicine consumption and whether abused will need analysing too. The drug levels will all depend on many ongoing research results.
The police at the time of arrest have a greater 'say' for the later Courts process, as they are better placed to assess perceived impairment at the time when the offence (driving) occurred.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 16:11 
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Just spotted this one, so forgive the late post.

Driving/riding while under the influence of cannabis is something that I have experience of.

It wasn't big or clever, nor am I proud of having done it. The last time I did it was around 2000/2001.

I am aware of some Dutch research that was carried out on the effects of cannabis (not in combination with other drugs) during the late 90's that concluded that those who drove under the influence of only cannabis tended to drive a little slower and with slightly greater care than those who had not indulged.

My own experience was that the drug (which I never consumed in combination with any other drug) made me more fearful of having an accident. I tended to drive/ride slower and make much more effort to observe what was going on around me.

Whether that additional effort was wiped out by other effects of the dope, I honestly cannot say - I was not one of those who were studied.

My one and only experience of driving after alcohol was just after leaving college. I had consumed a glass and a half of wine and was driving home to the other side of town in the early evening during daylight. After a few hundred yards, I pulled over as I was concerned that I was slinging my old Escort around the corners with a little too much nonchalance. After pulling myself together, I carried on home very slowly and with great care.

I can say that I never had such an experience with cannabis.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 20:10 
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It seems to me that we are too concerned with cause and too little concerned with effect when it comes to drugs and alcohol. If a driver is not capable of driving safely then who cares why. He simply should not be allowed to drive even if his incapacity is in no way related to substance ingestion. And, contrary-wise, what does it matter what is coursing through his blood stream if he is demonstrably capable of driving safely.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 20:17 
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Yes "a well trained police officer" will be perfect. Just send them all to medical school for 7 years, that will do the trick!

Maybe after they finish basic training, 2 years probation and other specialisation training the off to med school....cos there ain't no machine to test for drugs.

Good call on getting the FME to do the testing; imagine the queue at the station, oh and all of those traffic patrols off the road while they await the testing and the results. What planet are you on?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 22:19 
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I think the Yanks have some pretty simple and (broadly) effective impairment tests? I'm sure the traffic Plod over there don't need medical degrees to apply them.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 22:40 
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GreenShed wrote:
Yes "a well trained police officer" will be perfect.


I can't find the quote "a well trained police officer" anywhere in this topic except in your post.Could you please point out where it appears and who wrote it so I can see it in context? Oh very funny ..... it is in this post now too .... lol

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 19:26 
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Mole wrote:
I think the Yanks have some pretty simple and (broadly) effective impairment tests? I'm sure the traffic Plod over there don't need medical degrees to apply them.


It would be quite simple to provide the traffic plod with some kind of driving simulator on whatever box the kids use these days. Thought it might be seen, by some, as a problem when cold sober, drug free, well rested drivers still show themselves to be impaired.

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