stephenn wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Why the concentration on momentum ?
I think Big Tone makes a very valid point too when he writes,
Big Tone wrote:
If you needed to know the technical details and physics behind riding a bike, most of us would never have learnt. As Steve puts it so well...
Might I be correct in thinking too that you think that momentum resolves down to the fundamental issue with travelling 'safely'?
You agree with a comment by Big Tone which starts "If you needed to know....."
I simply agreed that it is a good and valid point.
[Please be aware that the Safe Speed forums are for debate and are free from my official stance of the Campaign as this allows a full and frank discussion. See
viewtopic.php?p=171440#p171440]
stephenn wrote:
There is no "you need to know this" mentality from the concept design.
You don't want to be taken seriously ? You don't want to state the 'truth' just a fast line to 'catch people' (arbitrary group) and then when they ask serious questions, it all falls apart, because as long as they might have thought about a few driving 'points' that is OK?
Does that sum it up ?
stephenn wrote:
With Steves points on how much does momentum.... benefit. Answer: the end result is an unknown as have not started yet.
It is not unknown it is of small relevance when compared to safer roads through better motorists behaviours.
stephenn wrote:
But here again, is the concept base:
mass, speed and direction awareness.... all three are relevant to vehicle placement on our roads
(do not twist that these are only three relevant.... but do consider if all three have a relevance)
In what precise way is it relevant to the A-B driver ?
Lets say that you wish to haul the 'lowest common denominator' into the 50%ile driver status, what type of person are they, and how will you approach the psychology to inspire the self-interest which might enable them to want to learn.
Which aspect of driving is the most important to concentrate on, to get the best message/s across to achieve the best and most effective result?
stephenn wrote:
relevance of concept worth?
If all drivers were calculating all the time... mass, speed and direction awareness AND anticipating the same of all vehicles and obstacles around.... it could help to be a safer place.
NOTE.... many drivers do this anyway, they are in fact processing complex calculations on collision avoidance and most courteous position to place the car or leave a gap, or extra safety gap because they are fully loaded etc etc etc
Whilst motorists do make many complex calculations in their day to day travels, many do not do so by 'math & calculus' considerations. Experience, ability and knowledge through learned behaviours & expectations is often all that is required, and hence why I question a 'momentum' statement as if it is a panacea to road safety.
The introduction matters as to how people then behave towards the rest of the information.
stephenn wrote:
..... the momentum bit brings no new magic cure,
So why try to provide an impression that it does, and one that cannot be substantiated? That for many will kill any further interest.
stephenn wrote:
but is seen (i see) potential to nail three elements, relavent to good driving..... under one label and dish out a fresh word to stimulate thinking, consideration, and perhaps a level of education, for some.
You may 'see it' but what have you really seen. People love to talk about motoring as we all have a vast quantity of experiences, different levels of ability, knowledge and subject interest.
I do not see momentum nor its scientific understanding, as necessary to enable people to become better at driving.
There are many ways to open conversations and the best way is often a question for example :
"Are you the best driver"?
"Are you as good as you could be?"
Driving : Good or bad? and so on ... it opens up the discussion and gets right to it without the need for confusing the issue about 'what
is mass', what
is momentum?
stephenn wrote:
On that note..... just today we (design) have ressolved a snag point to a poster quest.... it will take about two weeks to tweek all to be inline.
But if you haven't proved that what you are doing is 'best practice' and you want to thrash it out here (all for that),
why are you producing posters, before this concept stage is complete?
stephenn wrote:
..you mentioned momentum was not the factor involved when someone spins off the road.... so i gave you a scenario and explained momentum is a factor
In skidding off the road ?
stephenn wrote:
.... I think what you meant to say is you think drivers loss of control is the chief cause of spinning off the road...
It is never good practice to say what you think others meant to say.
stephenn wrote:
.... I think what you meant to say is you think drivers loss of control is the chief cause of spinning off the road...
No not in the slightest, the cause is earlier. The causes of spinning off the road, are varied :
1) human error - failure to observe, consider, or anticipate properly - often documented as 'failure to look'
2) deliberate, to avoid unforeseen, unexpected, unanticipated events - best course to avoid collision
3) mechanical defect / road defect
4) (some will say bad road design), this won't help but a good driver will cope and be aware of the potential dangers. Improvements to road layout and design will help prevent accidents/ incidents of course.
stephenn wrote:(If you use the 'Quote' under the post that will auto quote) See
viewtopic.php?p=193671#p193671)
stephenn wrote:
Hi performance for speed means you can dial in the momentum at extraordinary rates (the driver will testify to this... will be pinned back in seat as car is first to have momentum transfered... the internal organs will be pinned back in the body as the body is ahead of these to have the momentum transferred)....
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
In fact the organs are the last to react not first being the third injury in accidents.
think that is same... vehicle ahead of body, body ahead of organs....transfer of momentum order constant, but obviously pinned back or forwards on acceleration, decelleration respectively....Agreed on something regarding momentum?
[/quote]The itilised section implies that you think that the
stephenn wrote:
body is ahead
? still as long as you understand that the car takes the brunt of the impact then the person (and other items etc) impact and then the organs, that's fine.
BTW I have never said that momentum doesn't exist! It does obviously, but just that it isn't IMHO a good way to help people understand about how to driver better. It will distract people away from the 'how to better' your very driving / riding conversations that you really want to talk about.
After experiencing too many years of non-sense propaganda, I think that it is high time for direct, straight talking. We always try to seek the truth here, and when the true causes of accidents/incidents has tried to be dumbed down, to just 'speed' by 'others', it is therefor disheartening to see you replicate a potentially good opportunity, with a questionable title, that is quite.
This conversation is about whether "momentum exists" is a good concept, to open a debate about driving with the general populous but I have yet to be convinced.
stephenn wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Ah well here in lies the heart of your concept. Yes, it is beyond most people interest. They may understand the facts when explained but not relate it or remember it's significance when actually driving to the shops or to work
This goes as an education strategy challenge... end result unverified.
Just because a scientific base may help someone to travel through an average speed camera checked area more precisely does not mean that they are a 'safer' or 'worse' driver. It just means that they were able to manage the concept better. They might still have travelled unsafely and badly, but lets say they didn't do that, that they did travel safely and well, what made them 'good', the science or other factors.
Put another way - what are the
critical points of good safe driving/riding that you wish to tell others, or have them talk about ?
stephenn wrote:
... expect people who do road safety for a living would be fluent in and able to distribute that /those messeges, with continuous good effect.
If the authorities were doing the best job, then you would not feel the need to get involved - surely?