Safe Speed Forums

I was just following a bus with a slogan on the back saying:

Clean, green, comfortable and convenient
This is the new generation of bus travel

Only trouble was, it was belching huge clouds of thick black diesel smoke

Pity I didn't have a camera...

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Yes. But less CO2.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

O/T-but reminds me of something written in the dirt on the rear of a motorway cone wagon "creating more jams than Robertsons" - perhaps something like "Creating more smog than coal fires" might be a better way of describing bus travel .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Perhaps a call to the bus company to check that it is within legislation - to start with. They ought to know which bus on that route and at that time.
Research to identify what are the expected allowable pollutants are for buses, and then a thorough understanding of 'what is the likely consistency of the black smoke'. It doesn't sound good to me from your description. I have occasionally seen bursts of smoke as you describe from various vehicles, which does not look good and usually smells revolting.
Then depending on one's comprehension about all the chemicals deposited into the atmosphere, and how those chemicals may affect us, and our environment, will then influence our feelings and belief towards it. What we then do about it is another issue.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

OR-Should I have said "to those following a bus " .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

The pollutants are inevitably unburnt fuel and soot.
The same things that are emitted from car exhausts, but which are more tightly controlled due to catalytic converters and electronic fuel injection.
In todays fleet of passenger transport vehicles there are several different types used.....low, or no, emission used in the most controlled areas. And old-engined vehicles used where there is lax control or rural/sparsely-built areas.
For instance, in londons emission control zone: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17700.aspx
it is now euro IV standard. Any vehicle over 3.5 tonnes registered before 2006 will not comply and will pay a very hefty charge.
The daily charge for non complying vehicles starts at £100, and goes to £200 for anything larger than a small truck. The PENALTY charge for inadvertently infringing the zone in a non-complying vehicle is MASSIVE.....in the thousands per day...
This is coming to all large towns soon...so they say..
Modern diesel buses have to meet the new standards, old ones have to meet reduced standards relative to their age.
You should see the clouds of smoke coming from the local bus depot when the morning shift starts-up. All those buses are at least 7 years old and some are from early 1990's.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

I don’t see how any of them can possibly be all that green because, (around by me at least), they are often empty or only a handful of buses are running with just a few passengers. In fact I know of services which have been taken off because they are not economically viable = not “convenient” at all = I don’t want to use them. At peak times, when they rip us off, they are a vile breeding ground for infections gorged with people I wouldn’t ordinarily sit next to even if the service paid me to travel on them.

Clearly the marketing morons never actually use their own service, check on what’s actually green about it or have any experience of using them as they speak from the comfort and convenience of their office chair or Merc.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

We have double deckers on some routes in Cumbria - notably the 555 service (google it!) which at times have only a handful of passengers on board - but they run because they are subsidised by the council tax payer.
The new ones aren't as smelly as the old ones - but once the grant period expires, we may well get the old ones back - it has happened before!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Had this more than a few times ,Tone- especially Sundays where I was the only passenger on a 30 odd seater . And on other times ,I've noticed that most passengers were like me -using the gereatric pass - but only a few ,no more than about five . But lets not forget ,that Centro/County councils are subsidising this service ,and if stopped ,a lot on low incomes couldn't get into town .
As for go green - well jus follow that bus ,by car ,or bike- after a mile you will be green -gasping green from the smoke

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

This may or may not be relevant.

The buses running at such periods could be argued to be a 'loss leader'.
I suspect that folks who catch buses at such periods would probably would have converted to private transport if the service wasn't available at those hours thus depriving buses of that valued custom during normal hours.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

On my route to work I routinely see several empty or virtually empty buses daily, and that is around rush hour.

My work journey is about 6 miles by car/bike using mainly back roads with no real holdups, only one set of lights on whole journey, takes around say 15 - 20 mins each way. if I was to take the bus that would turn into an 8 ish mile journey using mainly congested main roads with lots of traffic lights etc. I'd have to use 2 buses and it would take around 35 - 40 mins each way and cost about £7 - £8 per day. I've only done this once so far (cos of car failure), maybe there are weekly /monthly tickets cheaper, not sure.

Or I could do a bus / train, would be round about the same time and cost though. Or a train / train if I'd extravagant amounts of time and money to spare!

Its a no brainer really!

Buses can work out pretty good for pensioners in Scotland as they are I think free (well taxpayers pay for it!), and if you have plenty of time .......

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

They should be AT LEAST on Euro V by now!!! It's been a legal requirement for all new heavy duty emissions vehicles for over a year, I think, so if London are still allowing Euro IV vehicles in their LEZ, that represents a bit of a backwards step!

Yes, as JOM says, black smoke from diesels is usually mainly particulate emissions (very tiny soot particles, sometimes called PM10s). They're very nasty for you, linked to all sorts of lung disease. It's absolutely normal for a diesel working close to full power to produce them (car or bus). You get maximum power from a diesel by providing excess fuel compared to air, but then they produce soot. Current emissions requirements demand various technologies to get rid of them (like particulate filters), so we should start seeing less of them as the older vehicles die-off.

Except that whenever I see a Really Bad smoker, Its almost always a fairly new modern one!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Isn't it a pity......They closed all those rural railway branch lines! Get a train moving and it'll roll on for the next 5 miles without power! Another ruddy shortsighted capitalist plan. May Beeching rot in hell.............

Beeching closed the branch lines because nobody was using them!

It was a reasonably sensible descision at the time. Beeching was no bean counter. He was and Engineer and a Physisist. I find it interesting that, despite the fact that the country WAS bankrupt at the time the Government did not infact appoint a "Bean Counter" choosing instead somebody who might take a more long term and objective viewpoint.

The real disaster was not "Beechings Axe" It was what has happened since. IMO the closed railways should have been "Mothballed" the graded rights of way represented a precious (And completly irreplaceable!#) resource that might either have been reopened in the future (if appropriate) or been used for some other transport purpose (Bus ways, tram ways, lorry ways, cycle ways etc) but tragicaly far too many of them have been sold off and broken up! And that WAS a mistake!

(It would simply not be legally possible to build a rail network in the 21st century the way it was built in the 19th! Once one has lost a 19th century "Rail Right of Way" one will never be able to replace it!)

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

More now that when they need to expand the network nowadays ( as in the case of making the West Coast Main Line a four track route) , additional structures ,eg motorways were the problem .Not very easy to get four tracks under a motorway flyover only designed for three . Again on the same upgrade, a lot of land was compulsory purchased to add the extra track elsewhere.But for a modern service ,running safely, the sleepers /rails/ballast and other things like drainage would have to have been replaced.
The thing that went badly was the fragmentation of the railways. Money was tight, and BR staff made the effort to spend it as it was their own . Network rail only like spending it on fancy consultants.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

_________________
The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing