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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 23:39 
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MCN - By Steve Farrell wrote:
Mismatched tyres ‘could have caused fatal smash’
By Steve Farrell - 01 February 2012 17:14

A motorist who span across the road killing a biker could not be tried for careless driving because her tyres were mismatched, according to the Crown Prosecution Service.
The CPS says there was no point proceeding with the charge because it could not be proved the crash wasn’t caused by the tyres, which were legal but not recommended by the car manufacturer.

Motorcyclist Andrew Wilson-Jones, 36, from Deeside, North Wales, was on his way home when 24-year-old Rachel Roberts span across the road in an MG sports car and collided with him head-on on the A495 in Shropshire in June 2010.
Roberts was driving her brother’s MG TF without insurance and had just overtaken before the crash.

One of the car’s front tyres was the type originally fitted to the model as standard. The other was a later version from the same tyre manufacturer. The two Goodyear tyres are not recommended for use together on the car.
In a letter to the victim’s mother, Judith Jones, the Crown Prosecution Service argues: ‘The key issue in this case relates to the tyres fitted to the vehicle driven by the defendant.
‘The careless driving case against her was not proceeded with because the failure of the tyres could not be ruled out as an operative cause of the loss of control of the vehicle.’
The letter adds: ‘It could not be proved to the standard required in a criminal trial that the mix of tyres fitted to the MG did not cause loss of control.’

Mrs Jones, 63, said: “Even the police have told us that if it had been a guy in a car with a child in the back seat and she’d crushed the car, or a bus stop full of people, or a zebra crossing, and she’d spun 360 degrees, it would have been different. If she said ‘Oops, I think the tyres are wrong’ – it wouldn’t work, would it?”

Roberts, from Brymbo in North Wales, admitted a less serious charge of causing death by driving uninsured at Shrewsbury Crown Court following the prosecution’s decision that careless driving could not be proved.
She was banned from driving for a year and ordered to do 100 hours’ unpaid community work and pay £600 costs.
Mrs Jones has since corresponded with the CPS over whether Roberts could be recharged following the trial in June last year.
But the letter, from the Chief Crown Prosecutor for the West Midlands and dated January 27 2012, rejects the notion.
It says: ‘I note that in previous correspondence the question of reinstatement of the prosecution was considered and various comments made upon this.
‘I am afraid that in so far as that issue is concerned my colleagues misdirected themselves as to the powers available and thus inadvertently misled you…
‘Mrs Roberts could not be tried again for any criminal offence based on the same or substantially the same facts.’
My sincere sympathies to all parties involved. Sad for all involved.
Who fitted the wrong tyre combinations? I find it hard to understand why they thought that there was not some responsibility on the drivers behalf especially when driving an unknown car (to her). Considering the effort applied to, these days towards uninsured drivers, never mind the great tragedy, in taking someone's life, she walked away from a potentially sever sentence. Why would someone let another drive a car when not insured? I can only assume that s/he too has lost their vehicle depending upon the damage.
I am quite sure that this disaster will never leave her, all we can hope is that she will learn from it and eventually become a very good safe driver/rider.
And from the Shropshire Star here : Crash fears over A495 speed limit delay
I see West Mercia SCP (here) have been applying their camera-trade clearly not preventing accidents.
Location here and news article.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 00:28 
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MCN - By Steve Farrell wrote:
Mismatched tyres ‘could have caused fatal smash’

Possibly logically acceptable but ...

Quote:
... causing death by driving uninsured ...

Please can someone explain this to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 03:21 
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Steve wrote:
MCN - By Steve Farrell wrote:
Mismatched tyres ‘could have caused fatal smash’
Possibly logically acceptable but ...
Yes. Although I'd like to know what she either failed to account for that saw her end up skidding?
Steve wrote:
MCN - By Steve Farrell wrote:
... causing death by driving uninsured ...

Please can someone explain this to me.
It seems to be a legal phrase. Try these :
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road ... d_driving/
http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov. ... deline.pdf - Page 16 onwards

DEATH BY DRIVING WHILST UNINSURED by TheJusticeofthePeace @ 18. May. 2011. – 07:20:18 : http://thejusticeofthepeace.blog.co.uk/ ... -11173093/
TheJusticeofthePeace wrote:
... The Road Safety Act 2006 created the offence of causing death by driving when unlicensed, disqualified or uninsured by adding s.3ZB to the Road Traffic Act 1988. The case of R-v- Williams and subsequent appeal should be compulsory reading {in words of one syllable} for unlicensed or uninsured drivers who can read. For the rest of us the Appeal Court`s decision is final although there might be some philosophers who would argue.
In essence such a driver as above is guilty of the offence even when it is shown and admitted that he is not at fault. The case can be accessed here. ...
bailii wrote:
15. Indeed this appears to have been the view of the many who have commentated upon the section. For example in Smith & Hogan Criminal Law (12th Edition) at 1111 the current editor, Professor Ormerod says:
"The Road Safety Act 2006 introduced in s.21 these controversial new offences of causing death while driving when unlicensed, disqualified or uninsured …. These are stark examples of constructive liability offences where the culpable conduct is unrelated to the manner of the causing of the death. All that needs to be proved is that the defendant was driving when he did not have a valid licence or insurance or had been disqualified from driving, and was involved in a fatal collision. Even if D's driving was flawless and the collision was solely the fault of another, or even if V was solely at fault in running out in front of D, D will be convicted of the statutory homicide offence. Commentators have been scathing of the breadth of the offences with Ferguson for example, describing them as a 'fundamental alteration of criminal law policy'. There is nothing more than a factual causal link between D being unlawfully on the road and the fatality. Some commentators argue however, that such offences are not objectionable in themselves because they reflect the enormity of the consequence of death, but that the sentence is inappropriately harsh. The argument that the culpability of the unlawful driver for being on the road when he was uninsured poses a danger which justifies a homicide offence if a fatality arises is a weak one, and only marginally stronger in cases of unlicensed or disqualified drivers. The truth is that these offences are simply concessions to the expectations of the general public that because a death has occurred, someone ought to be blamed for it. The mismatch between fault and consequences is striking."
Most interesting and needs more digesting ...
If she was not legally allowed to be 'on the road', in that vehicle due to her uninsured status, was she (potentially) unfamiliar with the vehicle too? Should she not take a level of 'blame' for being unlawfully on the road and 'lost control' when she ought not to have been there ?
There is no mention as to whether she thought that she was insured or not, nor if she had even been insured for the car and was familiar with it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 04:20 
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Since she was driving without insurance she bears full civil liability.
Hopefully the [civil] law will wind its slow way to compensation or bankruptcy.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 00:45 
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I'm intrigued...

"...The two Goodyear tyres are not recommended for use together on the car...."

Not recommended by whom? Goodyear?, The car manufacturer?

Assuming they were, of course, the correct design (both radials) and the correct nominal size and rotation (if applicable), plus the same load, speed and temperature rating, I wouldn't have thought anyone would "not recommend" the mix. In my car's handbook, a few makes and sizes of tyre are listed, but I don't think there's anything that says you can't have either of the two makes on the same car. In fact, to be honest, I don't think it says anywhere that having the same make and model of tyre on each corner IS recommended (though common sense would suggest that it is).

We're already not far from being tied to a particular tyre on new cars. Those fitted with low rolling resistance tyres are increasingly likely, in the future, to have to keep the same type of low rolling resistance tyre for reasons of CO2 emissions.

Oddly, I've been in a very similar situation on my own car, having had to fit the (full-sized) spare that had never been fitted in 22 years! A brand-spaking new wheel and tyre, with shiny, factory-fitted balance weights. Needless to say, despite being the same make and size as the other three, the car felt quite different on that corner!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 13:26 
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As someone who has driven cars with a different make of tyre on all four corners before now, it would have been worth knowing that if I had caused a fatal accident by bad driving, that I might have gotten off with it a little lighter...especially since I have always been insured.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 21:13 
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Ok, here's a question for you.

Say I have a RWD car which has poor traction in snow, would it be OK to fit winter tyres on the back pair only?

As an aside, I was in Germany last week and was taken down the unrestricted autobahn outside Frankfurt in sleet/slush conditions in a BMW 325d at 230kph. Winter tyres and no apparent drama.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 22:21 
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Quote:
Say I have a RWD car which has poor traction in snow, would it be OK to fit winter tyres on the back pair only?


Legally fine as far as I know and go to to be better than normal tyres. I'm trying to get a cheap (part worn) pair for the front of my FWD car as the traction is poor in anything except a bone dry road. I really don't think we will see enough winter to warrant a new pair.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 13:30 
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I'm intrigued by this too ...

"The two Goodyear tyres are not recommended for use together on the car."

Apart from the recommended by who issue .....

Not at all clear what this means ... does it mean ....

A/ There is no specific recommendation to fit these two tyres together on the car therefore by inference it is not recommended?
B/ There is a specific recommendation to NOT fit these two tyres together on the car?
C/ Something else :roll:

Quite a few years back I bought a used Golf GTI, the tyres it came with (Pirelli P Somethings) were really dodgy in the wet, with very sudden and difficult to predict transition from lots of grip to virtually no grip. In the dry the tyres were fine and you'd never suspect the sudden loss of grip wet behaviour. I actually had them changed well before the tread depth was illegal, not something I'm normally noted for :whome: ... so they must have been pretty scary!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:40 
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Zippo wrote:
Quite a few years back I bought a used Golf GTI, the tyres it came with (Pirelli P Somethings) were really dodgy in the wet, with very sudden and difficult to predict transition from lots of grip to virtually no grip. In the dry the tyres were fine and you'd never suspect the sudden loss of grip wet behaviour. I actually had them changed well before the tread depth was illegal, not something I'm normally noted for :whome: ... so they must have been pretty scary!

Had a similar situation with my Pug 306 GTI6. Standard fit tyres, from new (Pirelli P9000 iirc) were fantastic wet or dry :drive1: :twisted: . That was until about half wear.

They then became :shock: . Dry grip would progressively fade away, but wet grip was like it fell off a cliff. I was a member of the owners club and we could find no reason for this to happen, it appeared to be the same on every other car fitted with them. If you were aware of the problem you could drive round it and even exploit it in certain situations. But for some to jump in and drive a car fitted with them for the first time could be :o

It taught me a lot about tyre maintenance. I have not had a similar situation since on any car I have owned.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:47 
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I've heard "travellers' tales" that some tyres have a softer compound on the outer parts of the tread, which gives great grip, but wears quickly, then you get to a certain tread depth and it hardens up - giving poorer grip but better durability. It seemed to be the case (purely subjectively) on some performance Bridgestones that were popular 10-20 years ago. I've no idea if it's true, but I've certainly noticed tyres that seem to wear quicker from new to half worn than they do from half worn to bald.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:48 
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Zippo wrote:
... does it mean ....

A/ There is no specific recommendation to fit these two tyres together on the car therefore by inference it is not recommended?
B/ There is a specific recommendation to NOT fit these two tyres together on the car?
C/ Something else :roll:



Yes, that's put in a nutshell what I was trying to say and making a hash of it! All very odd!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 16:48 
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That’s possibly the thinnest and lamest cop-out I think I’ve ever heard! If it had the slightest whiff of possibilities it would open the gate to a whole raft of fat excuses, like a low tyre pressure for starters. I’m damn sure something like that would be at least as significant as a slightly different tyre type from the same manufacturer but that should not negate any culpability for a serious error of judgement or plain bad driving.

In Spain it is against the law to have mixed tyres on the same axle. Different types front and back, yes, but not on the same axle. However, that does not mean if you do mix them the performance is so terribly impaired it becomes dangerous, unless you are pushing the limits...

If this case has any merit then Bridgestone would have been sued into extinction back in the 1970s for making tyres which make a wet road feel like ice. This story stinks of a 'good' lawyer to me. That poor biker :(

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