Safe Speed Forums

Including pavements?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

My speculion is that the lenient sentence is that it was only a motor vehicle he was using as a weapon. I am sure that if the bus driver had used a gun or a knife, even just to threaten, he would have got a much longer sentence.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Seems an odd conclusion to reach? I mean, not an odd conclusion that attacking someone with a knife or a gun would be regarded as worthy of a stiffer penalty than attacking them with a car, I mean odd that you should think that's the reason for the lighter penalty in this case.

It must be about modern day perception and media hype I think Mole. Knife crime is the big baddie at the moment so since the driver wasn’t speeding they were probably stuck for a worse label with which to prosecute the driver.

If he’d wound the window down and threw an unopened Swiss army knife instead, the news would have read “Mad bus driver attacks cyclist with knife!” and he’d probably have gone down for ten years.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I'm only speculating - but if the bus driver had been wielding a knife or waving a gun, the cyclist would have thought twice about trying to prevent the bus changing lanes, as shown in the earlier video, by refusing to yield, then complaining that he was "cut up" by the bus!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

And for un-necessary clarification : (My etc referred to possibly the considered removal of all other segregated areas too.)
I do think that since people are becoming obsessive over 'their bit of tarmac' that by removing the identified lane segregations - not pull up the roads! - will help people to remember their (dangerous) proximity to others. (slightly edited)

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

There is a crucial difference - knives and especially guns are specifically designed as weapons, motor vehicles aren't. I imagine someone threatening someone with a chair leg would get a shorter sentence than if using a gun.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Unfortunately ,untill we see a "climate change" in road safety thinking,and education this won't happen . This country has been subjected of too many years of divide and rule,and auto policing. The "shared space " and "no priorities" ideas being ( or rather trying to be implemented) fly in the face ot the "it's my right of way ,so I'll take it -sod you" brigade .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Knifes are not specifically designed as weapons. I have several knives in my kitchen. One is specifically designed for cutting bread. Another is specifically designed for cutting meat. Another is specifically designed for cutting cheese. I also have several knives in my workshop - all specifically designed for cutting wood. I carry a knife in my pocket - specifically designed for cleaning out my pipe.

I used to have a gun, specifically designed for making small holes in paper targets.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

You seem to be becoming an advocate of the shared space paradigm which, I seem to remember, has not previously been received very favourably on these forums.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

What is it that you have understood by what I have have said?

I am not (to explain further) calling for the removal of all pavements, although a previous experiment in Kent many years ago was very successful.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

That you are moving towards acceptance of the Shared Space paradigm. Shared space removes the traditional segregation of motor vehicles, pedestrians and other road users. One of the principles behind the scheme, which is mentioned in an article about the increasing interest in such schemes in Europe, from the German magazine Der Spiegel, is that road rules strip motorists of the ability to be considerate. Monderman is quoted as saying: "We're losing our capacity for socially responsible behaviour, ...The greater the number of prescriptions, the more people's sense of personal responsibility dwindles."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I know when I have mentioned cycling along a pavement I have felt like a leper. I mean when there is a line drawn upon it, it becomes shared space. But for some reason you can’t just imagine a line or have a keep left policy, it simply becomes anathema if it isn’t designated or assigned legally for some reason. So I don’t mention it anymore. Better to stay on the road even if the situation is so dangerous it costs your life..

Come to think of it, the only place I can think of which people don’t want as a shared space in the UK is the pavement. Curious

Walkers walk across roads, or on them when there’s too much snow. Cyclists’ cycle on roads. Basically everything can use a road and no-one bats an eyelid but the second a cycle, motorbike or car dares to mount the curb all hell breaks lose. Strange, when you consider more pedestrians get killed on roads than do on pavements but the focus always seems to be on dedicating pavements solely for peds because of some perceived danger which, in reality, is like getting struck by lightning.

I mean statistically, pedestrian KSI on pavements is extremely low which flies in the face of this paranoia of pedestrians and cyclists sharing pavements I would have thought. I’m sure there’s more to it than that but ya gotta love them stats eh?

Well, that’s me in the dog house I fear.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

horse riders seem to feel at liberty to use the road, the verge or the pavement as and when it suits them...

The previous exchange occurred after this incident.

The bus AND cyclist enter onto an extended roundabout, and the bus is ahead of the bike, and indicating to switch into the right hand lane to continue around the roundabout.


Despite the indicator, and the position of the bus ahead, the cyclist continues to make progress, and impedes the bus drivers clear intent to move into the right hand lane.


With space running out, the bus driver holds off pulling right - possibly aware of the determined effort of the cyclist to impede his progress into the right lane.


Did the cyclist really expect to be able to cycle the full length of the bus before the bus had to move over to the right?

I would have slowed to allow the bus to move across - or at the very least, tucked in behind one of the vehicles alongside in the other right hand lane, not complained at the actions of the bus driver at that point!
However, the cyclist seems to have allowed his temper to get the better of him, and he blocks the bus at some point by leaning his cycle on the front of the bus, and remonstrates with the driver - blaming the bus driver for getting too close - and apparently resorted to puling back the wiper of the bus, and allowing it to spring back onto the screen of the bus!

No wonder the cyclist did not wish to appear on the BBC filmed report of the incident, and the result of the subsequent court case!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17069235

Edited to correct link

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Yep, both the cyclist and the red car in front of the bus (who seems to be sat there going nowhere fast) are causing problems for the coach driver. Even if the cyclist had been in a car there, was no excuse for his reactions to an obvious and (to anyone with any driving experience) necessary manouvere by the bus driver.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

From what is shown here the cyclist is a p**t. It is quite obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense that the bus is trying to get across to the other lane so why continue on, rather then come in behind the bus? But this is the problem on our roads these days, either people do not seem to comprehend what is happening around them or else are just bloody minded and seem to enjoy making life difficult for other road users.

I do not for one moment suggest that the bus driver deliberately driving into the cyclist was right but I do think the cyclist should be charged with riding without consideration for other road users.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I do agree that his riding is highly questionable. Perhaps deliberately antagonistic by this time ?
The rider is at best showing complete inability to understand what he bus is doing so and just rides into a closing gap which is really bad riding!

Is it the lack of Police on the streets to discourage this that has played it's part or have people, somehow become so much more selfish?
Or has it always 'been there', but with so many ready means of reporting and viewing it, we now simply have better facilities to observe more of it?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Is it the lack of predictability that troubles you with this or the inconsistency or the use of all spaces?
Horses do IMHO have a real issue as any horse can be 'spooked' and that can turn a situation into a deadly situation very quickly indeed. Keeping horses calm and in control is always best practice. Many riders hate going on the road and that fear potentially gets transmitted to the horse. Even revving an engine outside a horsebox can be a problem.
Some horses are learning 'road sense', so the riders may choose to use the verge deliberately to encourage grass eating, to convince a horse/pony that this is a pleasant experience, and that there is nothing to worry about.
I had a horse spook once right on a right hand bend on a busy road (by a lorry - not intentional) and on a very solid road safe horse too. The horse reared and was really troubled, but after all the traffic had kindly and thankfully stopped she settled and I regained total control and walked her on - there being no other openings or anything to use until we were a bit further on, where our turning off was anyway. (Needless to say as soon as I could I thanked all the drivers !)

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.