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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 20:32 
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Bike Biz by Carlton Reid wrote:
EU's electric bike rule changes slammed by Bicycle Assocation boss
by Carlton Reid -Wednesday, December 21st 2011 at 5:23PM

EU's electric bike rule changes slammed by Bicycle Assocation boss
Phillip Darnton, executive director of BAGB, warns UK Gov't that proposed EU rule changes risk creating danger on the roads.
Phillip Darnton, executive director of the Bicycle Association, has written a hard-hitting letter to transport minister Norman Baker, warning of the dangers for the UK if EU rule changes on electric bikes are accepted into UK law.

Extracts from Darnton's letter are below:
"The proposed changes [concern] the Motor Cycles Framework Regulation COM (2010) 542 by the IMCO Commission of the European Parliament. We understand that these proposals are to be voted on by a plenary session of the EU Parliament in February 2012.
"The BAGB, on behalf of the UK cycle industry, is very concerned by the latest amended proposals, and ask you to use all appropriate means to ensure that they are rejected, and form no part of any consequent UK legislation.
"Following the DfT’s consultation on both EPAC’s and EPV’s in March 2010, there was agreement across the industry – as well as with cycling groups – that the guidance which, de facto, had been in force in the UK on the definition of an EPAC was almost entirely appropriate, and in keeping with general practice in EU countries. The three key determinants of an electrically-assisted pedal cycle were:

i. maximum speed of 15mph/25kphii. power rating of 250 w. maximum (currently 200 w. In UK)iii. power cut-off when not pedalled (except for initial start-up i.e. no “twist-and-go” throttle capability

"The UK industry, along with Colibi/Coliped for European manufacturers and distributors, have sought to ensure that any revised regulations:

i. make a clear distinction between a bicycle and any form of scooter, moped or motor-cycle.

ii. ensure the safety of all road-users, with regard to the speed, acceleration and weight of EAPC’s

iii. give absolute clarity to retailers and consumers on what the legal status of the EAPC is; i.e. that it is not a ‘motor vehicle; requiring a licence, vehicle excise duty, a rider age limit, and mandatory helmet use.

iv. To muddle the clear distinction between pedal cycles and all other road vehicles is a significant potential risk to their current position, which requires none of the above.

"However, the last amended draft from the IMCO Commission of the EU has introduced two features of the definition which are of serious concern, namely: that the power-rating maximum of 250watt should be relaxed to include motors up to 1kw; and that the bicycle does not need to be pedalled for the motor to engage i.e. “twist and go” throttles are to be allowed.
"Not only would such a regulation blur the distinction between what is/is not a bicycle, but also presents considerable risks for road safety, especially in terms of continuous speed as well as acceleration. It is not stated whether there would be any minimum age limit on the riders of these 25 kph electric vehicles, or where their use would be proscribed, eg whether allowed in cycle lanes.
"China, in particular, is manufacturing cheap “twist and go” bikes in large quantities, and the impact of the adoption of this amended regulation by the EU Parliament would – assuming that it was followed by the DfT in due course – very quickly have an effect on Britain’s roads. Hence the significance of drawing it to your attention now.
"The proposed amendment to the Motor Cycle Framework Regulation COM 542 has been very actively promoted by the European motor cycling lobby group (ETRA); it would in our view, be irresponsible if this special pleading were to influence new regulation without challenge. If the current speed of pedal cyclists is already a concern for some road users, a move to larger, faster and heavier electric vehicles will only make the issue worse.
"Furthermore such changes would effectively constitute a ‘back-door’ route to deregulate entry-level motor cycles, making them available to a much younger group and removing essential safety standards."

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 15:18 
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A real example of this in action http://www.reghardware.com/2012/03/29/uk_government_says_e_bike_too_fast_for_roads/

The Register wrote:
The government today confirmed that an electrically powered bicycle, may not be sold in this country because its top speed exceeds legal limits.

The Turbo e-cycle's US-based creator, Specialized, was all set to peddle its first battery-equipped bike in coming months across the EU. But with a top assisted speed of 28mph, it will not be permitted in the UK, it has emerged.
Specialized Turbo

The Department of Transport today confirmed to Reg Hardware that "electric motors must not be able to propel [an electrically-assisted bicycle] when it is travelling at more than 15mph".

The Specialized Turbo packs a 250W rear hub motor, an integrated 342Wh Li-ion battery and carbon fibre disc brakes with a regenerative charging feature. The battery is said to last for an hour at top speed, although it will charge in roughly two hours.

A unit on the handlebar provides power level and battery status as well as speed, time and distance figures. There is also the ability to tweak the bike's integrated LED lights.
Specialized Turbo

It all sounds very snazzy, but for €5499 (£4593), you'd expect it to. The bike will go on sale across Europe in limited numbers this May, followed by further shipments expected in the autumn.

It will only be permitted for sale in countries that have introduced 'superbike' classes of e-bike, such as Germany, which upped the limit from 15mph to 28mph, but insists such vehicles stick to the road only.

The DoT said manufacturers are able to integrate limiters to keep assisted speeds down to the legal requirement. However, it appears Specialized has no current plans for this, so those desperate to own a Turbo will have to travel to the continent to do so.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 15:59 
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BRAKE said "We can't see what the issue is. Ban them. The continued obsession with speed must be curtailed."

Quote:
...insists such vehicles stick to the road only.

What, not in cycle lanes then?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 16:03 
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Where does an electrically-assisted bicycle end and an electric motorcycle begin?

If you need a licence for a moped restricted to 30 mph, then why should you be allowed to ride an electric bike capable of doing 28 mph without one?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 16:13 
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Are these vehicles subject to VED or compulsory insurance like a "motor vehicle"?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 19:53 
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malcolmw wrote:
BRAKE said "We can't see what the issue is. Ban them. The continued obsession with speed must be curtailed."

Quote:
...insists such vehicles stick to the road only.

What, not in cycle lanes then?



Or as seen in my locale , an electric powered moped ,without VRN using footpaths in park. No problem ,say you .But what about the no cycling signs on one side of the park ,and divided footpaths on the other .

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 20:34 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
"However, the last amended draft from the IMCO Commission of the EU has introduced two features of the definition which are of serious concern, namely: that the power-rating maximum of 250watt should be relaxed to include motors up to 1kw; and that the bicycle does not need to be pedalled for the motor to engage i.e. “twist and go” throttles are to be allowed."The proposed amendment to the Motor Cycle Framework Regulation COM 542 has been very actively promoted by the European motor cycling lobby group (ETRA); it would in our view, be irresponsible if this special pleading were to influence new regulation without challenge. If the current speed of pedal cyclists is already a concern for some road users, a move to larger, faster and heavier electric vehicles will only make the issue worse.
1 horse power = 746 Watts. So I could concievably be on a more powerful, much lighter and less *iratic, 'horse'.

Interesting.. :scratchchin:

I wonder if the end product of supacycle could be spread on me garden to help me toms grow... :D

*Later that night Helen the horse-woman and cycling Cecil argued which was more irratic. They are currently awaiting their divorce nisi. :P

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 22:31 
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What is this obsessive fear of speed and where does it come from?

Is it some atavistic racial memory to do with predators do you think? Regression to behaviour more appropriate to some scurrying nocturnal mammal than what is effectively the global top predator?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:09 
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Last night riding home in the dark, I managed 41 mph in the dip at Bannerigg.

I won't use the cycle path at those speeds - but would I be breaking any laws if I did? :o

I wasn't cycling furiously either - although I am always a bit cross at the state of the road, what with the potholes and deteriorating road surface! :whome:

It seems to me that these electric bikes are a little on the slow side if they can only max at 25 mph. :scratchchin:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:02 
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Toltec wrote:
What is this obsessive fear of speed and where does it come from?
In my case It's called the price of fuel at £1.55.9 from a Jet Station I just filled up at. (Super Unleaded).

I've noticed more and more over recent months a huge increase in motorists pottering along below the speed limit for no apparent reason. I'm convinced It's more to do with being frugal than speed kills..

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 18:57 
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Big Tone wrote:
[quote="Toltec"

I've noticed more and more over recent months a huge increase in motorists pottering along below the speed limit for no apparent reason. I'm convinced It's more to do with being frugal than speed kills..


Beginning to agree. Tried out a theory on the A5 today ,to check on the difference on my oil burner between 2000(~60mph) rpm and 2500rpm( ~70) , using the instantaneous MPG setting on the trip computer. At 2000 ,on the flat, I was told ~65mpg and up to 85, and on an incline it never went lower that 40 . At 2500 ,lucky to get 37.And around town I regularly get ~50 .Seems on a long run ,it's natural speed is 60 .Problem is that on a long run , 60 is not mine :D

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 08:09 
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more importantly.. it looks hideous.
(and those brakes don't look like carbon to me?)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 20:43 
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ed_m wrote:
more importantly.. it looks hideous.
(and those brakes don't look like carbon to me?)
I've got to ask ed, you want carbon on a bike like that? I thought that stuff was more common in F1. Or am I thinking of ceramic...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 14:54 
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Big Tone wrote:
ed_m wrote:
more importantly.. it looks hideous.
(and those brakes don't look like carbon to me?)
I've got to ask ed, you want carbon on a bike like that? I thought that stuff was more common in F1. Or am I thinking of ceramic...


nowt to do with me tone :) just saying.
i expect it weighs a fair bit with all the batteries & motor so even if the speed isn't up to much you've got a fair bit extra momentum to deal with so they'd have to be happy the brakes fitted can deal with it.

disc brakes and hydraulic actuation have only just become UCI legal... whether anyone takes up what marginal benefits there may be for road racing we shall see.

quite happy dragging my cork pads across expensive carbon rims for the time being..... braking isn't really a priority ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 16:06 
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ed_m wrote:
i expect it weighs a fair bit with all the batteries & motor so even if the speed isn't up to much you've got a fair bit extra momentum to deal with so they'd have to be happy the brakes fitted can deal with it.
Ah, don’t know if I mentioned it but I have some experience here :-)

I rode my mate’s electric bike a few weeks ago and the brakes absolutely blew my mind! I have never been on something so fierce, (and dangerous if not forewarned), as an electric bike. I know you know this but when you throttle off the energy goes back into charging the battery. In fact the retardation is so good from this that, in my mate’s words, “you never have to touch the brakes”.

Like the nob I am, a lifetime of habits dies hard, I throttled off and applied what I thought was going to be gentle braking. Holly crap! I thought I’d just hit an invisible tree or something! Haven’t felt anything like it since I rode a bike with Brembo's

ed_m wrote:
quite happy dragging my cork pads across expensive carbon rims for the time being..... braking isn't really a priority ;)
Just so long as I never see you as a patient ed. :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 13:17 
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Big Tone wrote:
ed_m wrote:
quite happy dragging my cork pads across expensive carbon rims for the time being..... braking isn't really a priority ;)
Just so long as I never see you as a patient ed. :thumbsup:


I try my best (not to).


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