Safe Speed Forums

"Move to cut Shropshire road deaths by half
http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2013 ... s-by-half/

The number of people killed or seriously injured in accidents on roads in Shropshire should be halved by 2020, council bosses have said.

The authority set out the target in its new road safety policy which is due to go before councillors for approval next week.

In 2005, more than 200 people were killed or seriously injured in road traffic accidents in Shropshire.

Officials want to see this number brought down to less than 100 by 2020.

The target has been included in a new road safety policy due to go to Shropshire Council’s Cabinet meeting at the Shirehall in Shrewsbury on Wednesday.

The policy is being proposed in light of new national guidance on speed limits and safety measures. It will replace Shropshire Council’s current policies on village speed limits, rural speed limits and vehicle-activated signs.

Previous Shropshire policies set out lists of which roads were going to have reduced speed limits based on accident figures, but they did not determine whether a speed limit was the most appropriate course of action.

The proposed Road Safety Policy framework will let officials decide whether a new speed limit is the best way forward, or whether other measures would be more successful.

Simon Jones, Shropshire Council’s cabinet member responsible for transport and highways, said: “Speeding traffic is often one of the main concerns for communities, and improving road safety is high on the list of the council’s priorities.

“With that in mind, it’s important that speed limits are managed consistently across the county to make sure they do what they’re supposed to do – that is, make the road safer.”

At first glance they seem to be saying..."Maybe all the ridiculous speed limit changes we have made recently (which didn't follow DfT Guidelines in many cases), aren't the way forward to reduce road casualties"

I somehow doubt that they will stop doing what they are doing and look at the bigger picture instead...BUT Pigs may indeed fly, one day!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Speed limit arguments aside that's a mighty sad target, almost to conclude that half of road deaths today is somehow an acceptable number.

More people die in local hospitals from things they never went in for, such as blood clots, MRSA, etc. surely these deaths are far easier to prevent and more alarming but I don't see people going on about them as much as road deaths which will always be inevitable.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I don't think anyone could disagree with you there weepej. It's a meaningless and empty remark by some officials to justify their positions. 'Councillor Tone says by 2020 the moon should be made of cheese'.

What bothers me though, always has, is the apparent disinterest or lackadaisical approach to real road safety in general. We simply must have the intelligence, (in both senses of the word), to investigate and address this in a scientific and empirical way by now - so you would think

I swear before I so much as read the first line of the O.P. I just knew that old nugget of speed was going to be at the core It’s as though a bunch of idiots only ever make the policies on road safety and come up with the same thing time after time after time...

Don't get me wrong, if the speed, or a speed, somewhere really is to blame because it's too high I am honestly okay with that. But it always comes across to me that it is the only thing these faceless self-interested people, (whosoever they are), ever ever focus on.

The likes of BRAKE aside, (which is a lost and ignorant cause), you would think even the greatest idiot would recognise that a complex problem like road safety is so much more than just one simple aspect.

But it has always come across to me rather like a war, in that when something is bad or goes wrong and lives are being lost, people desperately seek to demonise someone or some group or, in this case, some 'thing'. It’s as if it doesn’t matter if it’s a cure or curse so long as something, anything, is simply and ignorantly just seen to be done.

I/we shouldn't be surprised I suppose. Who amongst us here don't see this very same thing happening in other aspects of life & politics & work &&&&.....

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

"Doctor,Doctor ,the patient is in trouble". "Increase the medication ,Nurse" . Same old .How can't they realise that we've had the same old road safety policy for ( ??) years and road safety policy is suffering from the equivalent of cdiff & Mrsa , yet nobody has thought of cleaning up the act ,and looking for other causes of problems .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

“Doctor doctor. I’m worried people are getting killed on UK roads and I can’t sleep at night for thinking about it. What’s the cure?”

“Well I’m afraid there’s only one cure but you won’t like it.”

“What’s that Doctor? Please tell me, I’ll do anything - anything! ”

“It’s the only thing which may work. It will very difficult though.”

“I don’t care! I swear I'll do anything doctor! Just tell me!”

“Go into politics, make it to PM and introduce a law which bans all vehicles, including imports, from doing more than 10 mph. There will still be knocked-up, (still children themselves), mothers who leave a baby under your back wheel while you're trying to reverse, (which will be your fault), but you will definately see an incredible improvement on the KSI figures"

“Oh, I like that and BRAKE would approve. But tell me, how will supplies get to where they belong and the logistics of all we need and use? How will medicines get to hospitals in time? How will everything function which our country depends on as the very life blood of our country?”

“It won’t, it will be worse o-feeble minded patient; but that wasn’t your question or worry. The KSI will just be shifted elsewhere and worse, instead of on our roads.”

“Oh, well that’s okay then. Just so long as it’s not on our roads.”

“ Next....”


Ah, Mr Tone. How are you today?

Well I have halitosis, incredible flatulence and superating spots on me nob. Oh, and my girlfriend left me for some reason...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

TONE-

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Of course you can't say that any level of deaths is "acceptable", but realistically there is no magic bullet to eliminate all accidental deaths and injuries without completely stopping the activity concerned. Also bear in mind that many of these deaths and injuries will result from behaviour that is already illegal.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Yes again, and I’m sure the Council weren’t suggesting that either. I took weepej firstly to mean that it suggests it’s a realistic target, and like all or most targets they’re just a meaningless figure someone plucked out of thin air, and secondly it does seem to imply that half the current road deaths is all we can expect.

It would have made more sense to me if they’d said our aim is to reduce KSI as much as humanly possible and then come up with meaningful policies, instead of beating the same old drum. As you say Peter, unless you completely stop the activity or take the flawed human element out of all driving it’s never going to be anything like remotely close to zero. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that if you keep making limits lower there should be less and less KSI the closer it approaches zero mph. This propaganda is spewed forth all the time like it’s a win-win situation, but it isn’t and never has been!

They would have us think that speed is the biggest killer, but the fact is if you lower limits to absurd levels then of course you can blame speed, but that doesn’t necessarily make it the truth! The reason is so simple a child could understand. If you lower the height of ladders you will find it will reduce the Killed or Seriously Injured statistics of height related accidents until you get down to one rung or no rungs; when it ceases to be of any use. This is effectively what they are doing and trying to hail as a success with speed; they just haven’t gotten down to ‘one rung’ – yet.. And speaking of loco...


Who me? Guilty as accused botach. But it's borne out of frustration with what I see at work, the people and what's left of them - those who survive of course

So when I keep reading about yet another policy or initiative which boils down to ‘lower the speed limit’ as the solution to all evils, (like some demented Jack in the box popping up that wont die), it makes me despond. And occasionally this shows in my posts

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

A puzzling anomaly is that, in pretty much all fields of human endeavour, speed is lauded. Usain Bolt, the HS2, Thrust, and Mo Farah are all praised for their speed (I almost put Oscar Pistorious in there). Just one activity is made a pariah for speed - driving.

Odd, isn't it that Bradley Wiggins is rightly accorded high status for going faster than his peers while you would be pilloried for driving fast past a Councillor's house in the dead of night.

If HS2 is such a great idea because it takes a few minutes off a businessman's journey to Birmingham, why isn't driving faster to achieve the same end a good idea?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Well so much for Shropshire councils, new approach to road safety.

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2013 ... ad-safety/

Please Alice, tell councillor bannerman, your new approach or lend him some reading glasses ,someone!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I live near Salisbury which has a 20mph Zone in the city and sounds very similar to Shrewsbury in terms of narrow ancient streets etc.

In fact, after the introduction of this zone, nothing changed. everyone still drove at 15 to 20mph just like before as it was impossible to do otherwise. The result? No effect other than Councillors could stand up and claim credit for traffic calming and "slowing down traffic".

If a blanket 20mph zone is to be (as intended) self enforcing, then it does not need to exist as by definition, traffic cannot easily exceed this speed. These zones just form a cautionary statement to motorists to take extra care in the congested city centre streets and seem not to be enforced anyway.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I'm not suggesting they can be totally eliminated, but that should be the goal.




Are you suggesting that illegality is impossible to tackle? So instances of illegal actions that result in accidents, such as speeding, driving too fast, drink driving, using a mobile phone, driving whilst distracted and dangerous driving can't be reduced and we've got to just accept that the level they're at today cannot be changed?

Wow, if that puzzles you then that shines a light on the angriness of your ilk as to why you can't drive as fast as you like.

I could leave it at that but I won't.

Usain Bolt isn't going to kill anybody if he runs the fastest 100m in the world cos he's got the lane to himself. HS2 runs on tracks, separated from other vehicles and by in large the public. Thrust ran in a salt flat in a specially cleared environment.

When I'm in my car on the motorway there are lots of other people around, when I'm driving in town there are lots of other people around (on foot, in cars and on bikes), when I drive in the countryside there are other road users too.

You left formula one off, a sport which I enjoy greatly. That also runs in environments that are specially cleared and the participants themselves are happy with the risks at driving at such high speed and are willing to accept that (not that there's a lot done to make it as safe as possible). This does not apply to a family of five going for a trip to the seaside who get crashed into on the PUBLIC road by some driver doing 110 because they think it's their right and if Jenson Button can do it why can't they.

If you can't see the difference no wonder you're so bitter you can't drive as fast as you like!

So what would your answer be to the recent crash in a Scottish forest where a rally car veered off into the crowd, causing death and injury?

Do you put a speed limit on Rallies, or just ban spectators from being in places where cars may come off the track?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

You should avoid interpreting my posts in terms of my personal attributes and character just because you don't agree with the sentiments expressed.

"...angriness of your ilk..."

"...drive as fast as you like..."

"...you're so bitter..."

These are just pointless insults.

Why not address the underlying point that the Government thinks that building a railway which takes 20 minutes off the journey time to Birmingham will promote economic growth. However, speed reduction schemes for cars are promoted without considering the economic downside of the resultant longer journey times. IMO, this is the anomaly.

If there is a lack of transport capacity to Birmingham and points north, why don't they build either more conventional railways (which allow people to get on and off locally) or new trunk roads? These would be much more highly utilised than the HS2 and by more people than just the few businessmen who will be able to afford the new fares. After all, as is said often by BRAKE, what's a few more minutes on a journey time?

New, less congested roads would also be much safer than the tightly packed traffic we have now as there would be more margin for error.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I'm sure the spectators were made aware of the risk of watching rally sport, I know I am when I go. Regardless I'm sure there will be some sort of investigation into how that happened which will be fed back into the sport, and somebody could've been negligent.

How can you possibly link this to motoring on open public roads though? When somebody comes off the road and hits a pedestrian on the pavement should we just shrug our shoulders and go "well, what did they expect?".

Assertion.

You sound certain speed limit reductions result in slower journey times, are you sure?

For instance how much does a crashed car in lane three of the M1 cost (presuming it's there cos you removed the speed limit)?



I think HS2 is most likely a massive boondoogle.

However, 20 minutes of the journey time for a train full of passengers does add up, and we know that a train line can carry many more people than any road, and let's be clear, roads and train tracks are for transporting people an goods, not the vehicles themselves.




Less congested? You sure about that? Generally we've observed when new roads are built they just fill up with cars.

HS2 is part and parcel of the greater EU transport scheme, as such the gov (whichever) has to build it. No choice.
I would prefer to call it a white elephant, which is what it will be. Doubtless full of the Great and Good travelling to Londinium on their company purchased and reserved seats, which lower castes are unable to occupy even if the seats are empty.
New roads fill: old ones have lower occupancy. Unless you are proposing that people only drive if there is a new road to drive on.
Fortunately, even when councils decide to restrict traffic, drivers use the technology available to avoid those restrictions.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

The previous Government thought (rightly) that the BBC is too London-centric and practically forced it to move a lot of activities to Salford Quays.

The price for this move was a deal that a very fast railway would be built from London to Manchester so that the luvvies and bosses can get down easily for the opera and to dine out. The first part of this is the HS2 to Birmingham later to be extended to Manchester. You will note that the largest journey time reduction is to very near Salford. This will all be put on BBC expenses (otherwise known as the licence fee) as "essential travel".

Of course, all this is just speculation...

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.