Safe Speed Forums

I ask the question because while it is not unknown for muppets to be driving at 30-35mph on the A515, A5012 and A5004 in Derbyshire (in cars might I add, I forgive tractors and HGVs when struggling) these people are allowed to get away with it. I use those roads daily with little difficulty. However, I had reason to use those roads on Sunday. I was going about my business but was impeded by a succession of road users who had no regard for others or the purpose of the road. I include in that the muppets with golf umbellas walking with their backs to the traffic .
What inevitably happens is frustration and illconsidered overtaking. For example, at one point I was behind a towed caravan who was in turn behind the hat wearing driver. As expected the vehicles in front went first, I stayed back, simply because I would not have had a view of the road. The next thing I noticed in my mirror was a person with no view of the road overtaking at speed.
Fortunatelty we all got past the dawdler.
How do we deal with such a circumstance ?

If policing is proper then I say that the dawdler is prosecuted for not mantaining a proper speed and I would also say that the unsighted overtaker should also be prosecuted for just that.

Hi Dave

I entirely sympathise with your point, but it is very difficult to define what is an "unacceptably low" speed on such roads, and the traffic police, such as they are, have better things to do.

I could see 40 mph as being a not unreasonable maximum for a cautious driver on the A5004, but on the A515 I'd expect them to do at least 50.

And at weekends, you need to expect, er, weekend drivers

Sometimes it can be the case that, the slower they go, the easier it is to pass them

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I agree that too slow causes danger. But you can't measure safe driving in miles per hour. We should be very wary about trying to put numbers to 'too slow' or 'too fast' - that's the fundamental mistake the authorities are making.

Suppose we agreed that 35mph was far too slow for a certain decent single carriageway A road - yet, on a snowy day or when there's a crowd of cyclists ahead, 35mph suddenly becomes 'too fast'. Whatever number you pick, sooner or later it's going to be dangerously wrong.

I reckon we have to always promote qualitative judgements about speed rather than quantitative ones.

Anyway,

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I found the same thing on Sunday when I when for a ride, clear good NSL roads and drivers barely doing 40mph. fortunately ridding a bike offer me many more safe opportunities to pass a slow driver but I really do see these people as a menace to other road users.

Just a thought I wonder how many accidents and deaths have been caused buy this type of driving with frustrated drivers taking extra risks more than they would normally even consider just to pass up people going significantly below the 85% speed of the other road users?

As the roads get busier this will become more and more of a problem but drivers being frustrated because they can't travel at the speed they want to, then taking risks that endanger other road users is not the result we want.
Unfortunately they'll have to "grin and bear it" just as I have to when some selfish muppet pulls out in front of me when travelling at 55 mph on an NSL rural road causing me to brake to 30-35. (Happened to me 4 times yesterday in 100 miles)

There are many (some ridiculous) projections as to how much busier the roads should get in future, but it doesn't help also that road space is being taken away to constrict and restrict traffic. Even if the number of vehicles and journeys were to remain static, does it make sense to increase the danger by jamming all road users closer together in a smaller space??

I am of the opinion that there is a natural ceiling as to the number of vehicles there will ever be on the roads, tied to population elligible to and capable of driving. As to the number and type of journeys being made, this is tied entirely to social, employment and economic issues and cannot be controlled simply by making driving awkward or expensive - if anything doing that merely fuels the need for people to work more and travel more to earn more to support their only mode of transport to their work.

Sorry for going a little off topic, but I do believe that many 'social-engineering' motivated changes to roads are having a grave impact on safety.

There's a single lane NSL near me that I would not go above 50MPH on and I guess average 45mph. It has too many bends and hidden entrances for higher speeds as well as deer!

I think it illustrates the point that we should drive to a safe speed for the circumstances and not the speed limit.

There are plenty of NSL roads round here where it isn't safe for 2 cars to pass each other without one pulling into the hedge. 20-30 is the max safe speed for most of the time on these roads. However I still wouldn't want a 30 limit enforced as there are a few straight bits where you can see it's clear for quite a distance ahead, and it's just so much more important to watch where you're going instead of the dashboard.

Agree entirely with Zamzara, that we want the onus on drivers to drive safely for the conditions, which do change.

Sniffed out already .

As SS says you cannot legislate for minimum speed effectively. It follows therefore that appropriate speed should be the maxim.
I was trying to highlight an issue which I am challenged with daily on predominantly rural routes. I would argue the case for drivers being pulled for holding up traffic on the main roads in the Peak District, when their focus is on pointing out landmarks to the passenger occupants of the vehicle. To appreciate the Peak District one needs to get out of the car and WALK.
If you must know, I joined the ABD three years ago on the back of a conviction for doing 73 mph on the A515 in dry, good visability conditions and no other traffic. The PC could best be described as a bounty hunter, his parting comment was "your not the first today and you won't be the last". That still wrankles when my trip computer stubbornly tells me that my average speed is less than 40mph. That incident put me on nine points, thankfully those have all disappeared now.
I joined SS for doing a good job of trashing the bunkum that is a feature of modern politics in this domain.

Exactly. That is why the arguement for no new roads because it encourages more occupiers fails.
Hazel Grove bypass now, please.

If the police had the resources, I am sure a lot more could be done - for instance "Driving without due consideration for other road users".
It makes for an ideal oportunity to lecture a driver, and if necessary, prosecute.

Magistrates would have to work to ensure suitable sentencing was carried out, but "in-car" video would make gathering and providing evidence easier than it used to be.

It would encompass middle lane hoggers, splashing pedestrians from puddles in gutters, etc. etc.

Join in and add to the list!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Precisely my point, however when PC plod is sent to Parsley Hay on the A515 he is told to cop as many as possible with his glorified stop watch.
Having paid my £60 three years ago I did have some correspondence with A.C/Inspector M.D.Pickard of Derbyshire Police. Other than the usual bullshit he pointed out 20 odd prosecutions for overtaking on a double white line and that he welcomed witnesses of poor driving independent of the Police. Numptihood.

Lets turn the question around - "how fast is unsafe" To one driver one speed is right, to another it is too fast.Problem is you cannot define a "too low" speed.
However if someone decides to be a "scenic gourmet" then i feel it is incombant on him/her to keep an eye on the mirror and allow locals to pass by pulling in at a convenient spot.
(Tailgaters in reverse)

This gets back to what i constantly harp on about - "courtesy" on the roads -

Being a driver means that courtesy takes precedance - you want to go slow - let others who want to go faster pass. ( Tomorrow you might be the one in a hurry)
It involves us putting ourselves in the shoes of others and asking the question "would i like it"
If the occasion demands i can drive fast and safely. I learned in the highlands, when if you go off the road, you walk home- sometimes about 40 miles.

Speed is not about numbers, its about being safe and courtous.
Be courtous, stay calm and you win, like staying calm when someone loses their temper in an arguement.You win - you might give way, but your NCD is intact.
Old driving instructor( actually very wise parent) , him say " better be a live coward than dead hero".
I try to live by it.

You see the point, however there is a requirement to get that view to the public.
For example, how many people are ignorant of the guidence of the Highway Code for pedestrians ? - "FACE THE TRAFFIC!!!!!!".
Any good driver will be aware of all around him/her and be courtous. It is the inattentive/selfish car users that I am highlighting, many who cannot anticipate a situation 5 yards in front of them, let alone 500 yards.

I can't give any figures for accidents, but in the past year the number of near misses I've been involved in where I've had to slam on the anchors to avoid an overtaking vehicle coming the other way is easilly in double figures, most of them have been on the A41 from Bicester to Aylesbury.

The real ones that cause frustration, at least for me, are the drivers who lack the experience or confidence to take corners correctly. They crawl around the slightest bend at 30 when you cannot overtake, and the accelerate up to 50 which makes it difficult to overtake legally. (Anecdotal evidence from someone on another forum who went on a speed awareness course suggests that 75% of people think the NSL for a SC A road is 50)

I nearly got wiped out this weekend, I came to a complete stop after going around a blind corner and seeing the overtaking vehicle on my side of the road and he missed me by a few feet. I didn't get to see the overtaking vehicle in question, but the vehicle being overtaken was an old man in a green original-model Rover 200. I realise that it's grossly unfair to stereotype old people in old crappy Rovers as being people who drive slowly, badly and without using their mirrors, but I bet he'd been doing exactly that and pissed off the other driver so much that they attempted such a stupid manouvre.

YEP - Safe speed for the road.YET AGAIN.safespeed is the speed you can drive at without getting brown pants.
I'm an old fogie,seen that way by my mates at work - yet we drive transit vans - I'm called the speed merchant, yet aint got a speed ticket, but get there faster than the rest.
Its not about age.It's about driving experience.
I can (and do ) show up young pups - the young ungs know not to drive at or about the limit and get there.Its all about road craft - and anticipation.

Driving to me is about reading the road - AND if you get in a forum such as this - shut up , listen , YOU MIGHT JUST LEARN SOMAT.(It could just save your life some day)(I HAVE TO DATE, and i've been driving 38+years - we're never too old to learn)


Sorry if my shouting offends - old fogies do my head
in as much as young kids geting offended at peeps slowing down at hazards to see if there is any thing to watch out for

SO IF YOU SEE A SLOW DRIVER -ASK WHY HE IS GOING SLOW??



MESSAGE- SHUT UP - LISTEN - LEARN - YOUR NEVER TOO OLD

Ahem!



You?

Really slow drivers I can cope with, because if they're really slow, then they can be swiftly overtaken at the first possible opportunity. What really winds me up are the people who are between me and the slow vehicle, driving a few feet from the vehicle in front, determined not to let anyone overtake them, but not showing any sign at all of intending to overtake the slow vehicle themselves. So then you're faced with having to wait for an opportunity that's good enough to get 5 vehicles in one go, and those can be extremely rare.

I'm sure JT and Ernest will bear me out.. but there are roads around here where you can safely push the loud pedal. Unfortunately the JJs have other ideas and plonk talivan etc on them

There are other roads which are interesting and you can really show off - providing you are careful and skilled enough ... No holding back my wife on these .... She does not frighten me though.. only in Switzerland when I see sheer drop to the side do my palms start to go a bit damp.... I don't like heights! Her driving is perfectly sound and steady and very safe. But if she starts rocking the chair lift. after I have overcome my "fear" of heights.. That's it.... we have words! miaouch!

Then there are the roads where you would choose as low as 25 mph as safe speed and no more than 40 mph as safe speed.

Matter of experience really - but maxim holds true - always be sure to be able to stop in distance you can see to be clear... and apply COAST skills with a vengeance on rural roads...

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