Safe Speed Forums

I would be quite happy with and stick to, speed limits which were set by the 85percentile rule. This would encourage a better free flow without the bunching which is often experienced on busy roads which are set too low now. This would also, in my experience, encourage drivers to concentrate more which would result in less "inattention" accidents caused by boredom and frustration.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

85th percentile, for the dustbin:

http://streetsblog.net/2012/11/16/one-f ... gineering/

Of course the morons on this site....
http://streetsblog.net/2012/11/16/one-f ... gineering/

who state, "they don't take into account pedestrians, only drivers", need to stand back and think a bit....what is actually the cause of most danger to peds?

is it flying dustbins?

No, it's drivers, so if fewer drivers are crashing due to keeping to the 85percentile, that means there are FEWER peds getting hit....DOH!

If only some of these people engaged their brain before ranting eh?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Blimey Weepy! I've just read a bit of that article. Let's just say that if I learned anything at all from it, it was about bias, and trying to rubbish a study without providing one SHRED of evidence to support an alternative one!

Let's take some examples shall we?

..."it's the most reckless 15% that set the speed limit..."

(sigh), they really don't understand the maths (sorry, "math" ) do they?

or the "...the limit's 35, which means you can do 45 with impunity...". Hmmm, try doing that over here and see how much "impunity" you can get away with!

Anyway, the 85%ile method is irrelevant now. The 85%ile was a once-in-a-lifetime, never to be repeated offer. It could ONLY work when there was NO limit previously. That was the only time in history that drivers truly decided on an appropriate speed for the conditions. Once a limit is set, the limit (and chance of prosecution) become yet another factor that the driver must consider when selecting an appropriate speed for the conditions. So, for example, if a road currently has a 30 limit, and an 85%ile survey is carried out, it might find that the 85%ile speed for that road is 34MPH. Nowadays that would NOT mean that 85% of drivers do not select a speed greater than 34 because they believe that is the most appropriate speed for the conditions. As a more extreme example, try conducting an 85%ile survey on a stretch of road with a 30 limit, enforced by SPECS, with a camera van at each end and a couple of fixed cameras part way along for good measure. What do you imagine the 85%ile speed would be then?

Of course I expect the answer to the other ridiculous statement of....

Will go totally unanswered, as is usual with weepy's dodgy chess moves.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I don’t believe going slower will cause accidents or put people at greater risk, any more than I believe going faster will in the right situation, but a balance has to be struck. (That word again). If traffic is slowed down to a point where pedestrians are highly unlikely to be killed in any collision, it starts to negate the whole point of using a car.

Something I noticed when I was in France recently was that the traffic seemed quite manic, in Monaco for instance, but pedestrians just seemed more road savvy. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind this is certainly, in part at least, what we have lost in this country! The onus of pedestrian safety has been totally foisted upon drivers, and woe betides anyone who dare suggest maybe pedestrians should address their own bad habits. The approach should be holistic yet the focus is always on car drivers and speed.

I was shocked to hear George Monbiot on Radio 2, quite some time ago now, talking on the effects of lead poisoning verses crime. (Bear with me). He said he’d completely changed his mind on this possibility in light of new evidence of a 20 year delayed effect on crimes after lead has been eliminated from petrol, paint and water pipes etc. The effect and evidence holds true in America and European countries from different decades when the widespread use of lead was stopped. Now I’m no fan of his, for his denunciation of someone on a different topic, but I have to say it was quite compelling and I’ll get to my point now..

What interested me most was a phrase he used and how I think it relates to speeding and road safety, when he said there’s a big difference between “Commonality verses Causality”. He went on to define the important difference between the two meanings, which is not difficult to understand of course but yet escapes the minds of these road policy makers and enforcers. If accidents go up or down with a corresponding increase or decrease in speed the most important fact and information you must find out is whether it is either as a direct cause of some change or simply a commonality, as Monbiot said in his example on the radio. The importance of this cannot be overstated; it is the difference between getting at the truth and a complete red herring.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

And THAT, Tone, (if I may say so) is one of the best posts I've read for a long time!
(we don't appear to have a nail-on-the-head smiley)!

My only small dissent would be that (as yet) the onus hasn't been TOTALLY foisted upon drivers - though I know there are those who would prefer to make it so.

No ,he's not lost, he's been rescued by Cap't nemo ,in a At times ,i wonder if Cap't Pugwash and Weepy aren't one and the same .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

and did you read this link that that blog, also directs you to (which shows why she is SO WRONG) ? :
http://www.ite.org/standards/speed_zoning.pdf


She has totally mis-understood what she was told.
The 85th%ile is based of many facts.
Perhaps in the future it may become updated in some way but that doesn't mean that it isn't 'sound' science.
And that future changes won't too be based from sound facts and proper scientific data.
Not hear-say.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Where ? No evidence that I can see ?
Adjusting the speed limit is known to only adjust a drivers speed by 1mph. so even if you take an existing 60mph road and reduce it to 50mph many will only adjust minutely - that is my point.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Considering most people do not crash from going around a corner you would likely be safe ...standing at the side of the road .... or were you thinking of a really totally exceptional situation and action like a totally blind bend and stand in the middle of the lane ? That would be really stupid of course! But then so would any foolhardy act like this on nearly any road. Acting stupid is not very smart.
There is no point trying to prove a point with a stupid and foolhardy exception it just doesn't work.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Why?

Because you're a human, not a rabbit or feral cat?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Seriously, why shouldn't I stand in the middle of the lane round the corner of a "blind" bend on an NSL road?

Seriously, for someone so paranoid about road safety to the point that a few mph over a dumb speed limit always kills someone - I think a more pertinent question is why YOU would want to do such a stupid thing?

What's next, why shouldn't I be able to put my head in a lion's mouth...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Why is it stupid?

I'm in no danger am I?

If I am, why?

Come on weepej; stop havin' a laff.

I'm going to bed, I suggest you do too...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Why shouldn't you use it as an example or why should you stand there? Darwin's theory springs to mind ... because you are not managing your risk and are deliberately acting in a potentially highly dangerous manner to yourself and to those around you. It is unpredictable and as some might say "asking for trouble". Your own 'self preservation' ought to prevent you from doing this voluntarily.
We always hope that people will act sensibly and predictably, doing this is potentially foolhardy and dangerous.
It is not to say that everyone will hit you, (of course), the vast majority won't, as they will be travelling so they can stop in the distance that they know to be clear, but we know that some don't manage risk well nor make good judgements, so you would be taking your life in your own hands by acting so irresponsibly.

Perhaps I should link this back to the 'brick in the road around a corner' thread ? Hopefully I won't have to !

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

So a person comes round the corner and hits me/goes into the oncoming lane and kills a family of five, and it was me putting other people in danger and not them?


Hmm, forgive me if I think you've got that the wrong way round.

Your attitude has always been one of the driver is always at fault and the pedestrian should be able to abrogate any and all responsibility for his or her actions. Note the word “responsibility”!

So whether a pedestrian wanders on a motorway at night or across a DC over a barrier, it’s the drivers fault. If a mother chooses to stick her baby under a driver's back wheel and he reverses over it, it’s the drivers fault.

WELL NO! Pedestrians do have a responsibility to act sensibly and with caution too, not just drivers, and in case you have forgotten it’s written down for you in Government guidelines and elsewhere. Let’s cast our minds back shall we and then you tell us why you want to 'deliberately' act irresponsibly or feel that it's your right to do so?


Government rules: -
1
Pavements (including any path along the side of a road) should be used if provided. Where possible, avoid being next to the kerb with your back to the traffic. If you have to step into the road, look both ways first. Always show due care and consideration for others.

2
If there is no pavement, keep to the right-hand side of the road so that you can see oncoming traffic. You should take extra care and
• be prepared to walk in single file, especially on narrow roads or in poor light
• keep close to the side of the road.
It may be safer to cross the road well before a sharp right-hand bend so that oncoming traffic has a better chance of seeing you. Cross back after the bend.


The Green Cross Code: -
1. First find the safest place to cross
• If possible, cross the road at: subways, footbridges, islands, zebra, puffin, pelican or toucan crossings, or where there is a crossing point controlled by a police officer, a school crossing patrol or a traffic warden.
• Otherwise, choose a place where you can see clearly in all directions, and where drivers can see you.
• Try to avoid crossing between parked cars and on sharp bends or close to the top of a hill. Move to a space where drivers and riders can see you clearly.
• There should be space to reach the pavement on the other side.
2. Stop just before you get to the kerb
• Do not get too close to the traffic. If there is no pavement, keep back from the edge of the road but make sure you can still see approaching traffic.
• Give yourself lots of time to have a good look all around.
3. Look all around for traffic and listen
• Look all around for traffic and listen.
• Look in every direction.
• Listen carefully because you can sometimes hear traffic before you can see it.
4. If traffic is coming, let it pass
• Look all around again and listen.
• Do not cross until there is a safe gap in the traffic and you are certain that there is plenty of time.
• Remember, even if traffic is a long way off, it may be approaching very quickly.
5. When it is safe, go straight across the road – do not run
• Keep looking and listening for traffic while you cross, in case there is any traffic you did not see, or in case other traffic appears suddenly.
• Look out for cyclists and motorcyclists traveling between lanes of traffic.
• Do not cross diagonally.
How you can help your child and other children
• Set a good example. Use the Green Cross Code yourself.
• Show your child how to use the Code to cross the road when you’re out and about.
• Let your child show you that they know how to cross the road safely – start practising on quiet roads first.
• Point out dangerous places to cross on local roads. Point out safer places as well. Some places may be safer at some times of the day than at others.
• Use pedestrian crossings even if it involves a small detour.
• Talk about the importance of not using a mobile phone or texting while crossing the road.
• Remind your child that they cannot hear traffic if listening to music through earphones or see it properly if wearing a large hood.
But let’s get one thing clear: it’s still important for children to be outside.
Walking is good for children's health and fitness and we support parents who encourage their children to walk as much as possible. Taking your child in the car for short journeys puts more traffic on the road and adds to the problem.
Children can be safer on the streets if we show them how.
Crossing between parked cars
Try not to cross between parked vehicles, but if there is nowhere else to cross:
• Choose a place where there is a space between two cars and make sure that it is easy to get to the pavement on the other side of the road.
• Make sure neither car is about to move off - look for drivers in the cars, lights and listen for engines.
• Don't cross near large vehicles. You could be standing in a blind spot, where the driver cannot see you.
• Walk to the outside edge of the cars and stop. Here you can be seen by drivers and you can look all around for traffic.
• Use the Green Cross Code. When the road is clear, cross, still looking and listening as you go.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.