Safe Speed Forums

With regard to variable speed limits, I can see the theory, but in the little experience I have around the m25 I have yet to see it work. However I have practised something on my daily commute on the m4 which, I believe, has a similar effect as to what they are trying to achieve.

When traffic is slowing right down, even stopping, I start by opening a pretty large gap to the vehicles in front of me (this tends to work better in lane 1 on the stretch of road I use) and slow down. I can't say by how much it depends on the decelaration of the traffic in front of me and how traffic is moving in all three lanes.

I then attempt to drive slightly slower than the average speed of the cars in front of me - this sometimes works better if you find yourself in a stop-start situation. Doing this the gap will increase and decrease but if I am lucky I can maintain a reasonable flow despite the stop - start nature.

It is not something I do without thinking, and have often speeded up when the traffic in front has passed a junction, I have not, and vehicles are behind me wishing to travel faster but wishing to exit that junction.

Often people will pull into my gap - but they tend to speed to a stop at the back of the queue in front of me.

HGV's seem happy enough with this and I suspect it something that truck drivers may practise as it reduces the number of gear changes, but that is only a guess.

Cheers

Paul

Seems unlikely. If you're driving at a legal 30mph in a 30mph zone it's natural for your speed to fluctuate a little. If you speed drifts between, say, 28-32mph you're still safer than someone watching their speedo like a hawk in case they drift to 31mph.

There's also the issue of roads where, say, 50mph is perfectly safe but the limit has been reduced, for no apparent reason, to 40mph but the repeater signs aren't there. On any road it should be immediately apparent what the speed limit is. If the speed limit is not posted how are people supposed to keep to it? I am truly sick of the number of roads I see where every hundred yards there is a sign warning of speed cameras but not a single sign to tell me what the speed limit actually is.

Under current laws it seems you can steal, burgle and mug without fear of any attention at all from Mr Plod and his friends. I'd like to know how many times I'm going to have to pay £50 for a new window for my car before the police take any action to catch the scumbag doing it. Yet I can be sure that a single offence of driving 85 on an empty motorway will cost me.

We need HONEST traffic police. Police that actually catch BAD driving, speeding is not in itself bad driving. Examples of bad driving include

1. No use of indicators.
2. Cutting up of another road user.
3. Not moving over when a overtaking manuvore is finished(lane hogging)
4. Random braking patterns.
5. Driving at 40mph on a motorway
6. Breaking heavily when you see a police car / scamera.
7. A police car doing 56mph.
8. Fog lights on during fine daylight, only dazzeling people.
9. Full beam on during daylight hours.
10. Using your phone whilst driving.
11. Reading a book whilst driving.
12. Eating whilst driving.
13. Reading a map whilst driving.
14. Driving at 60mph (NSL) on a single lane country road can be <8ft wide
15. Driving at 30mph past my childs school


All us people that drive for a living know only too well it's people like the one's listed above that cause problems not those that drive within the capicity of their cars and of the road system. Yet these scameras cannot detect this happening and the police as it stands have no interest in pursuing these harder to prove yet much more dangerous crimes.

Could that be because of the amount of paper work involved in proving these crimes compared to speeding. Or could it be because it's a very very easy way for OUR "POLICE OFFICERS" to reach their targets.

I realise this thread has moved on a bit, but I have to comment about this.

If cameras really 'stop people breaking the law by driving above 70mph' on a motorway, the consequence will almost certainly be a very negative impact on the accident figures, with more KSI.

Still, that will be OK, because the 'letter of the law' will have been enforced. And the scamerati will prosper.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

_________________
'The normally careful and competent actions of a reasonable person should be considered legal, regardless of the letter of statute'

Rioman, Herts

I'm a little concerned that this protest becoming too popular with 'car enthusiasts' could cause another problem.

I've been informed that a few 'cruise' sites are intending popping along. Whilst I'm a little biased against 'boy racers' due to my running of the barryboys site, I still think that a few dozen spoilered up Saxos and Corsas will reflect badly on the real purpose here - especially if they decide to do their own thing having not spent sufficient time reading up on the intentions of the protest and the rules etc.

I'm not sure what we can do about this, but I am concerned as to what may happen if this protest does become over-subscribed with vehicles that do not fit the image that we'd like to portray.

I own three cars, two of which are quite nippy - whilst being 100% standard externally (none of this big spoilers and bling alloys for me!). I was intending bringing my 12 yr old Ford Mondeo along rather than one of my more sporty numbers for this very reason.

Paul - what are your thoughts on 'cruisers' turning up and the adverse publicity that this could cause?

_________________
Kill a talivan, not your speed.

Good question. Straight cars would be better. But we can't stop folk from coming... I might try writing something about it over the weekend. It's hard when we really don't know how much support we need. Once the service station car park is full that's it. The cops will have to close the slip.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I don't think you can control who turns up... the ball has been set rolling and at this point you can at most expect to be able to post advice on how to behave, and if more than one car is available, which one to use...

I think it could be quite good anyway,,,,, if there's a good mix of ordinary cars, as well as old cars, and performance cars alike... ... as long as everyone behaves appropriately..

That's a point...

How big IS the service station carpark?

Can we not stagger the start to include other start points between the two already designated? I guess doing that would make it more difficult to co-ordinate with regard to dishing out leaflets and instructions and also when talking to the media.

I'm also trying to decide whether to leave my car without any m4protest banners on until I get there or drive 2 hours to the start point already badged up? I'm guessing that arriving 'in civvies' would be better as I'm less likely to attract unwanted attention from any bodies that are against the protest before I arrive. Alternatively, driving to the start point already displaying the logos will increase publicity?

I'm also assuming that it almost goes without saying that any m4protest stickers/flyers attached to cars shouldn't block visibility as that may give the Police an excuse to prosecute protestors for driving an unsafe motor vehicle.

_________________
Kill a talivan, not your speed.

I've asked a few folk, but no one seems to know at present. One advantage is that there are large truck parks and they won't be much used on a bank holiday weekend.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

There's a problem with using the truck parks-the behaviour of the idiots employed by the service area that will undoubtedly attempt to marshall the cars in there. IF you attempt to use the truck park you will undoubtedly be putting in there a large number of people with absolutely no idea of the needs of HGV's to manouevre or the space required for HGV's to do so.While there may be many that do understand, handing out a questionnaire to make sure people don't get killed or their cars crushed isn't really a realistic proposition and you will certainly incite a negative response from the truck drivers.

I worked Good Friday in my truck and pulled up into Reading services westbound truckpark at about 10am-just before the car park filled with cars and they started to drive into the truck park. Within 5 minutes I had witnessed 5 potential fatal accidents and had had to explain to a number of car drivers about how much room I needed to get the lorry out of the space I was in. This was exacerbated by the idiots allowing young children to run around in the truck park (remember, there's going to be non-protesting motorists in there too.) and the "standard service station dogsbodies" who barely spoke English attempting to usher cars into spaces that lorries were in the process of reversing into-and ushering cars directly into the areas that parked lorries would need to use just to exit their parking spaces. Obviously this is not the ideal situation but it's what will probably happen again.

DO NOT USE THE TRUCK PARK.
It's a dangerous industrial area with the associated hazards of a transport yard.
It WILL be in use on Saturday at 10am.It's only general haulage companies that stop for the weekend.
You may well force truck drivers to go over tachograph hours if they can't get in there.
An accident of any kind may be just the excuse the police are looking for to stop the protest.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

What you learn after passing your test is there's a lot more to driving safely than can ever be written down in a rule book.

I've talked it over with a few folk - Police included. In practice, I think 2/3rds of the truck park will be coned off for the use of M4 Protest traffic. It remains to be agreed, but it should work well. The truck park will be way under capacity on a bank holiday weekend.

We won't use the truck park carelessly.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Fair enough.

If I make it there I'll volunteer to help marshall.
(I'm currently recovering from whiplash after a van driver thought 3 feet was a safe distance behind me at 30mph...child walked out...Luckily the child didn't get hit.)

You'll be pleased to know that ACPO RPET, PSDB and the DfT are asking manufacturers to design roadside mounted systems that can be used to automatically detect close-following.

Surely no-one can be unhappy with that ?

The systems have existed for years, i seem to recall about 25 years ago my father pointing out a sign on stretch of road that lit up if it sensed vehicles driving too close to each other. Not sure how it did it, may have been wires in road, and allowed a set time between vehicles passing over them - so didn't adapt to safe distances for different speeds, but the basic principle was there.

Would have been in Northamptonshire or Oxfordshire area i think, my memory not that good and i was only about 10 at the time.

Sadly I shall be away the weekend of the protest - but good luck to everyone

Just a few notes to add as a frequent driver in the M4 corrider area.
- the number of camera vans on the A419 appears to have increased in recent weeks
- the number of camera vans on the southern roads out of Swindon has definitely increased in recent weeks
- the number of times I have been passed by speeding unmarked police cars on bendy country roads has also increased in recent weeks

When are the police going to learn that solving and preventing crime (that is their job isn't it?) can't be done by hanging around motorways and country lanes nicking motorists? Surely the money spent on the undercover Skoda RS's and Accord S types (to name a few) would be better spent on proper police work?

They sound a great idea until you consider the disadvantages of using a machine to do a copper's job. What if you're driving along, quite happily with a huge gap in front of you when some git in a rep-mobile cuts you up? At that point you happen to be passing a tailgating camera - who is going to get the fine?

_________________
Carl Prescott

Just a thought-is it actually legal for the camera vans to park(hide) in the hedges on the central reservation of the A419 at the bottom of Blunsdon hill?

Seems to me that they are causing a hazard moving off from there.

Incidentally my girlfriend followed one (2nd car in queue) that was doing 50mph in 30 limits coming back from Avebury the other week. Obviously she didn't get his reg no. because he disappeared into the distance at the start of the limit.

Who polices the Police...? Ah that's right...