Safe Speed Forums

because people do not always come from behind. what about the pedestrians who may cross the road that you are turning into? or the vehicle turning out of the road who is waiting for you to cross their path?
if anyone is around, use your indicators. its better to indicate out of habit than not to indicate because you didnt see someone. thats how accidents happen

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

I'm a bit on the fence with regards to this point - when I started learning to drive I used to think that getting into a habit was a good thing, but my instructor suggested that unnecessary use of indicators could be interpreted as a lack of observation by the examiner, and that I should learn not to signal if it was clear that no-one would benefit from the signal.

I can still see how getting into the habit of signalling before every move might be useful for some drivers (particularly those who don't seem to bother looking out for other vehicles before they make their move - at least if they all signalled before pulling into our path it'd give us a bit more warning ), but the more I drive the more I realise my instructor had a valid point, and that whilst giving indication of an impending maneouvre is important, it's far more important to get into the habit of observing your surroundings at all times.

I hate to state the obvious here, but what's wrong with observing your surroundings at all times and making an informed decision on whether or not you need to use indicators, then using them if necessary -ie WHENEVER YOU CAN SEE ANYONE ANYWHERE unless they are behind you and heading in ther opposite direction. That's the only time you don'y need to use them.

The majority of arguments on here would be immediately solved by making people take 2 weeks training to drive an HGV C then C+E.

You'd be surprised how much observation you have to do. Remember, that as you already have a car licence and experience on the road you have to drive to a far higher standard than most people are able just for the class C licence, and even higher for the C+E. You don't forget the things you learn either-if you do then you kill people.

what the hell do instructors or examiners know about driving???

i am a class 1 driver and i know that we have enough to worry about so the last thing i want to do is look around to see if i need to indicate. besides, how do i see someone directly behind me? i cant. if you make a wrong judgement and dont indicate, you are guilty of driving without due care and attention

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Not meaning to criticise you here scanny but if you're doing a full observation as you should in a class 1 then you'll know whether or not you need to indicate anyway-and thats 99.99% of the time in a class 1. It's all part of the process of observation-and if you can't see behind you then you need to indicate anyway-you're right you don't know who's behind you. I suspect I'm arguing at cross purposes here with you though as we both do the same thing for a living.

You're right-examiners don't know shit-but they DO know what to look for as regards observation and indication in most cases.
Ever seen an examiner try and drive an eaton twinsplit? possibly the funniest thing I've ever witnessed.

i cant stand them mate. i complained to the AA about one of their instructors. i dont know if it was an experienced pupil or the instructor driving but they pulled out of a layby without indicating in front of a wagon. i was in my car so i followed them and got their reg no.

i hate non indicators anyway. you know as well as i do that we can be sitting at a junction waiting to come out and miss a gap because of someone not indicating to turn off. all because of that, we are sat for another 10 bloody minutes

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Maybe it's not just not indicating that we should be debating but the lack of consideration for other road users period.

again, another point that we (Truckersworld) want to highlight. the training for a normal B licence is nowhere near as complex as it should be. where is the lorry awareness, skid training etc? i understand that a learner is not permitted on the motorway but how difficult would it be to add a compulsory course on passing the test? i did a 7 week course to get my HGV. it covered C, C+E, pass plus requirements, off road, skid pan in a land rover and HGV and an NVQ2.
extra training should be mandatory rather than relying on slowing us all down so granny can keep up with us at 40 on the M4

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Agreed-it took me 2 weeks plus medical examinations etc to pass my c2 and another week for my c1,I've been instructed in driving off-road and skid control along with doing the SAFED mechanical sympathy and fuel consumption course-and I think the majority of car drivers are an absolute joke. Putting scameras up just give them something else to not notice until it's too late-and then spend too much time looking at to see if they've been nicked.

I wonder if the accidents at camera sites have increased in the 100metres before and after them...?

i would put money on it. Mr wally sees the scamera, slams his brakes on and takes one up the bum from the driver behind who was putting her make up on. i wouldnt like to guess how many times that happens every single day. that is in the 30 and 40 zones. i hate to imagine what happens on the motorways

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

If you are in any doubt, indicate.

If you are in no doubt, do what's right.

Failsafe is my buzzword. .


We are all a bit guilty of lording it a little with extra qualifications. The most important aspect is to drive courteously within our own ability, having benefitted of course from whatever extra training we are lucky to have had.

I've taken a lot of police driver training, but I know that for natural driving ability I'm not a patch on some of my colleagues.

I also know we get it wrong too, but like HGV drivers we often have a lot of additonal things to consider while driving.

Two accidents I dealt with in the early hours of this morning involved Class one HGV drivers. They both made foolish mistakes and are likely to be facing at least Sec3 prosecution. Their manner of driving would have been explained much more readily if they had admitted to falling asleep at the wheel. Their contorted attempts to explain their action (or inaction) has not helped them.



And I, and most of the posters on this forum agree that at least revisiting driver training on a reasonably regular basis would be a huge step in the right direction.

_________________
Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

im not saying that HGV drivers are perfect in every way. far from it but we are way above the average motorist. we still make mistakes but who doesnt? in many cases it comes down to professionalism. we are professionals and should be seen as such. there are a minority who give the rest of us a bad name and i would happily see them in court. falling asleep is inexcusable. if i get tired, i stop at the first service station and buy a coffee. if the boss doesnt like it, tough. its my life, my licence, my RESPONSIBILITY to keep myself safe! any boss who doesnt like that can stick their job.

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

my attitude exactly scanny. Maybe a compulsory employer education programme would be a good idea too- me saying "I needed to stop or I wouldn't have been safe"after 13 hours at work has lost me a couple of jobs-as has refusing to drive unsafe vehicles.

I work for agencies now. It's a lot easier to say sod off it's not safe.

i have been with agencies for 6 years now. i have turned jobs down but i am looking now. things round here are still slow from the traditional after Xmas drop. i havent seen it last this long before. incidentally, thats why i am home. no work!

_________________
Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Wish I could say the same- I'm sat here with whiplash after some idiot in a British Gas van thought a 10 foot gap was enough at 30mph. A kid ran out in front of me. I was shunted to within 6 inches of the kid when he hit me and wrote his van off.

Luckily I was in the 4x4 not the bike.

Do you consider that speed limiters on HGVs contribute to driver 'sleepiness', Ian? And is your view shared by trafpol colleagues?

I have spent years driving in Germany where by law you have to use your indicators, if you don't they will hit you and then sue even if it is them in the wrong as they will prove you were in the wrong, for not indicating.

I indicate even when it is not needed, becasue I do not even think about it, it is part of the routine. I hate people that go round roundabouts without indicators, it either makes you wait longer as you don't know where they are going or ends up with having to anchor on the brakes, to avoid hitting them.

It is just plain ignorant, it is not difficult to do. People can bother to smoke while driving so why not do what they are supposed to behind the wheel. Just a little more courtesy, wouldn't go a miss.

I appreciate that at 2 am on an empty motorway you may not need to but if you get in the habit, you will do it all the time. So you can concentrate on what is around you.

Yep, yep yep.

Don't know if anyone else saw the Daily Express today, but they ran a small story headed The My Way Code. It looked at the results of a survey conducted by Teletext Cars of about 2000 drivers, not a very large sample and self-selecting granted, but it concluded that drivers were getting increasingly likely to ignore the highway code and the right of way of other drivers if they thought the police weren't watching them.
Amonst the things respondents openly admitted to doing were:

Stealing parking spaces
Making obscene gestures
Jumping traffic lights
Executing (presumably illegal) U-turns
Tailgating - yes people actually admit to doing this
Not wearing seatbelts
Ignoring yellow box junctions
Cut up other drivers for revenge
Making calls on their mobile phone
Driving straight over mini-roundabouts

Ironically, about 30% of these individuals actually took pleasure in seeing justice meted out to other people caught speeding or seeing the police pull over a flash motor
By slow increments we are losing our respect for the law and each other. Perhaps we should all buy tanks so we can dispense with any pretense that we can actually get along with one another and simply drive over any lesser mortal with whom we irritatingly have to share this hunk of rock.

Excellent question. I shall observe...

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Hmm, I wondered where the popcorn smiley could be used, now I know.
It's bad for your teeth BTW