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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 13:47 
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I made a comment in a forum attached to one of local papers and got the following from the local troll. He seems to have a fair bit to say about this site!
------------

Julian Mitchell.


"Spinny,

Do you really believe the reduction figures spewed out by the SCP's? Ever heard of Regression to the Mean, mate?"

Yes.

I've explained at length why "Regression To The Mean" is allowed for in all comprehensive TRL reports.

Please don't post on a thread before actually reading it matey boy because it wasted time and space.

"Excessive speed is attributable to about 4-7% of all road deaths. Whats is being done about the other 93-96%?"

Absolute twaddle.

Souirce this made up "fact" or admit you haven't a clue.

"Our roads used to enjoy a downward trend in deaths, that was until the scameras arrived, since then the tren has been halted!"


More lies.


Prove it.

Show me the trend of fatal RTA's allowing for traffic growth and compare with when safety cameras became common.


Take your time.



"Try checking out www.safespeed.org.uk where youll find over 8000 hours of real research on the matter. I think youll find youre pathetic arguments wont hold much water in the face of facts."


Safespeed is a crank website set up by one person, Paul Smith, an ex-delivery driver with no road safety training whatsoever.


His website is a tissue of lies, dubious data, made-up figures and dishonest, dangerous garbage.

Smith has been exposed time and time again as a fraud, a charlatan and a mendacious apologist for speedophiles.


I suggest you take the time to acquaint your self with the facts before blundering into a thread you know nothing about.

Try here;


By way of illustration the following are some of the views of Paul 'Safespeed' Smith regarding the disabled...

Link to uk.transport on Google Groups

(long link hidden by moderator to make page more readable)

“Personally I don't see why disabled folk should get special treatment.”

“ If it goes on like this we'll just have to cripple everyone to bring them down to the level of the disabled - it's only fair.”

“I can't think of a good reason why a disabled driver is more entitled than anyone else to a town centre parking space.”

“Sometimes the able bodied person might not be able to park at all because the stupid council has designated too many bays for disabled use.”

“Sometimes there might be six disabled bays all empty. Should an able bodied person walk "a long way" because six disabled folk might turn up?”

“What about equal parking rights for everyone on a first come first served basis?”

“... I REALLY don't understand disabled driver parking spaces. Why should a disabled driver get special parking privileges? It's a tiny step along the dangerous path of crippling the rest of us down to the same level as someone less fortunate.”

“ I know full well it's not "politically correct" to question (dubious) "rights" given to disabled people, but I don't give a damn about political correctness.”

'Does it really upset you so much that disabled people have one privilege over you compared to the privilege of mobility you have over them? I bet if they were given the choice, I know which they would choose.'

“If they get one privileged, then another, then another, pretty soon I'll be a second class citizen brought down to their level. Is that right? I don't think so.”



Paul Smith was invited onto Greater Manchester Radio today to give his views on the coroners comments about the speed camera which killed a pensioner (!)

You can contact GMR here;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/england/gmr/contact.shtml



Why are they giving space to the views of Paul Smith?

Paul Smith is an engineer with no road safety experience , his crank website "Safespeed" is a ridiculous tissue of nonsense where he claims, among other things, that disabled people should not be given special priveleges, it is safe to drive at 150mph near his house and cyclists should be "nudged" out of the way.

He also appears to believe that it is right and proper to use dead people to avoid speeding fines;

From: Paul Smith (psmith@XYZsafespeed.org.uk) Subject: Re: Students sell car licence points Newsgroups: uk.legal, uk.transport Date: 2001-09-03 04:01:03 PST Message 27 in thread

Take this one stage further, ha, ha. What about the deceased? AFAIK, > there is no compulsion on the executors of a deceased person to > return their driving licence to DVLA. You don't even need to know the deceased. Just picking a name for the local newspaper's obituary column has been known to work nicely. With a bit of care in your choice, there's no one to call you a liar.

(It's on my web site :-) -- Paul Smith Scotland, UK http://www.safespeed.org.uk

SafeSpeed

North Scotland United Kingdom 14 Posts

Posted - 18/08/2004 : 14:17:0


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 13:49 
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Ooops, forgot the link

http://new.edp24.co.uk/forums/shwmessag ... opicPage=9


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 16:31 
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Someone has worked hard to trawl the million or so of my words published to the Internet to try to find something damaging by deliberately quoting out of context. Doing so constitues libel.

Just ignore it. It's a load of old rubbish.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 21:08 
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Quote:
From: Paul Smith (psmith@XYZsafespeed.org.uk) Subject: Re: Students sell car licence points Newsgroups: uk.legal, uk.transport Date: 2001-09-03 04:01:03 PST


I don't suppose he can come up with something a little more current?

Isn't that the same cr@p Howard trawled up (C+ forum). Same person maybe? Indeed the whole post smells of waterfowl, I'm sure if you dig around on Cycling plus you'll find it's (at best) a copy-n-paste job.

He didn't answer me when I questioned his ancient material that time, maybe you'll have more luck.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 08:45 
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Paul,
Sorry if this is dragging up old nonsense, but This is the trolls latest reply to me, and I wondered if you could help me put it to bed.

--------------------------------

"why hasnt anone been able to successfully contest it? Paul states that he will correct any incorrect data if found to be so."

Try this;

http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk/Web/p ... Paul_Smith
or;
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk/Web/p ... enDocument

"Perhaps you should join in the debate over there and help educate Paul to the error of his ways?"

I did.

Paul Smith claimed that speed bumps killed 500 ambulance patients last year.

I asked for the source of this claim and he highlightes a Safespeed press release.
I explained that the press release was garbage.

500 people were not killed by speed bumps and the London Ambulance Service confirmed this.

I even posted a statement from the LAS which proved that Paul Smith was talking cobblers.


The thread was removed and I was banned.


A guy called Mark Belchamber (whose website http://www.belchamber.org is mainly concerned with his love for his Lotus sports car) between 2002 and May 2003 asked 36 paramedics what they thought about speed humps and how they responded to their use when driving. This limited ‘research’ was the original source of those ‘humps cost 500 lives a year in London’ stories. Despite the research itself noting that the findings could not be generalised due to the small sample size and methodological shortcomings Belchamber ‘s figures were extrapolated to give the supposed ‘500 lives lost’ claim.

What then happened was that the report was brought to the attention of Sigurd Reinton of the LAS who, taking the report at face value, and expressed concerns that that humps MIGHT reduce response times and so possibly led to a rise in the deaths rate for cardiac patients. However, no one in the Ambulance service itself actually made any claim that humps actually were costing lives.

Once Reinton had shown expression of concerns about a possible effect of speed humps on response times was ‘spun’ by the right wing press and anti-speed control lobby to give the impression that LAS believed humps WERE causing fatalities, and that the scale of these was the ‘500 per year’ figure unjustifiably extrapolated from the original private research by our Lotus fan.

LAS were quick to try to reduce the damage done by the misrepresentation of Reinton’s expression of concern, although of course the speedophiles and right-wing press all but ingored these corrections. The following is from a Green Party Press release of 11th Dec 2003

London's Deputy Mayor welcomes ambulance chief statement on road humps myth

Jenny Jones, the Green Deputy Mayor of London has welcomed clarification from the Chair of the Ambulance Service that road humps do not cause 500 deaths, as well as evidence from serving officers that congestion is the primary cause of delays in ambulance response times.

After hearing evidence at the London Assembly, Jenny has withdrawn her call for the Chair of the London Ambulance Service, Mr Sigurd Reinton, to resign after he stated that, " I'm being accused of saying that lives are lost and I'm actually saying is lives may be lost.. We are not saying that all traffic calming is bad... Obviously, speed cameras cause no problem for us at all."

Jenny Jones asked, "So you have never said that road humps cause 500 deaths?" Sigurd Reinton replied, "I don't recall saying that."

Mr Mullin, an Islington team leader within the ambulance service, said, "In Islington the main strategic roads are Holloway Rd, Liverpool Rd, Caledonian Road. These are gridlocked, so we go down side roads to get round the problem.... At three o'clock in the morning we can get to emergencies a hell of a lot quicker... and sometimes without meeting any traffic calming at all."

Jenny said, "The real solution to ambulance delays is rolling out congestion charging across London and investing in other traffic reduction measures which will deal with the thousand pinch points on the London road network. We should also be looking at the alternatives to speed humps such as the greater use of cameras and the introduction of speed limiters."

Naturally the speedophiles and right wing press failed to demand the replacement of humps with speed cameras or robust action being taken to reduce congestion levels in order to speed up ambulance response times, which just goes to show that they were more concerned about giving drivers the ‘freedom’ to speed than actually saving the lives of patients in ambulances...

Many others were also able to show the shortcomings of the methodology and extrapolation of the original ‘research’ by our Lotus driving friend, Mr Belchamber. For example:

LONDON BOROUGH OF CAMDEN

Minuites of meeting of the ROAD SAFETY SCRUTINY PANEL held on TUESDAY, 20th JANUARY 2004 at 7.00 p.m. in Committee Room 1, at the Town Hall, Judd Street London WC1H 9JE.

MATTERS ARISING

London Ambulance Service

The Chair informed the panel that he was looking at the whole issue of the impact of road humps on the response time of the London Ambulance Service as part of his homework.

Sam Monck reported that the London Ambulance Service had now responded to the council on what their key routes in the borough were. He would now open up talks with them regarding the traffic schemes in Camden and how they could work in co-operation in the future.

Stephen Plowden reported that he had been chasing up an officer from Surface Transport, who had made a statement that an increase in response time of an ambulance of one minute would save 60 – 70 lives a year and not 500 as quoted by the London Ambulance Service.

See http://www3.camden.gov.uk/templates/com ... =10945.htm

All in all the whole story seems to be little more than a bit of politically motivated and rather clever mischief by a motorphile who knew full well how his ‘research’ would be used by the right wing press and anti-speed control groups. That said Sigurd Reinton and the LAS were also partly responsible, not least for 'failing to produce evidence to back up this claim and for neglecting to attend consultative meetings where new humps are discussed' as the Guardian story above notes. Who knows, perhaps Reinton and Belchamber collaborated on this...

Smith was granted an opportunity to set the story straight and print a retraction.

He refused.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 20:48 
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Ah... Howard. Funnily enough he seems tohave disappeared from C+ about the same time as Bombed brain. Well ... on lurks - have not seen him and our current family rep on there has not cycled or even driven across him.

He may, of course, be under another name on there - but certainly not seen the reams of rot we used to see there. C+ has become fairly pleasant reading again ...our guy gets under some folks' skin - but seems to have their respect. He is not receiving anywhere near the abuse as my sister - in - law - Nice Tame :neko: and her husband.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 21:14 
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Julesm wrote:


This page is full of inaccuracies including the usual idea that Paul wants drivers to have a free reign to set their own speed limits. This has been invented by the pro camera brigade. I have never seen Paul ever say any such thing and have often seen him state speed limits are useful. It is the way they are being enforced which Paul is against, not the speed limits.

The author also confuses speed and speeding, a common mistake.

Quote:

Hmm.. a parody on a parody, how does that work. The 12mph page shows how statistics can be twisted.

Quote:
"Perhaps you should join in the debate over there and help educate Paul to the error of his ways?"

I did.
......

The thread was removed and I was banned.


The only people I have seen banned were banned for being abusive.

The speed humps cost lives theory has been backed up with data from around the world. The London ambulance service originally agreed. Then they suddenly changed their view. I wouldn't like to suggest they may have been leant on for political reasons.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 21:22 
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I've read a bit more of Mr Chapman's website...

He has some unusual views on seatbelts, claiming they kill people. :o Now he may be right but it's just the sort of thing Howard et al would use to discredit Paul. ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 09:34 
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Many thanks, Homer.

I think I was also hoping Paul might have a view on this troll's comments, or even have a few words to say in the said forum to shut this moron up.

My interest in the forum is that its attached to a Major paper for our local area.

Jules


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:26 
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I'm here and watching, but dealing with this stuff properly is very time consuming and I'm absolutely flat out with m4protest business.

All I can really do is give you my absolute promise and assurance that none of it is true and accurate. Perhaps someone will come along who has the time and the background knowledge to unravel some of the rather complex lies and misrepresentations.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:39 
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On second thoughts, perhaps you had better put me in touch with the site owners / moderators so we can get it pulled.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:26 
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Cheers Paul,

I appreciate youre a busy man.

The main web site is at
http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/default.aspx

The link to the specific discussion is at
http://new.edp24.co.uk/forums/shwmessag ... eID=170570

The editor of the rag can be contacted at
peter.franzen@archant.co.uk

Let me know if you need any other info, assistance etc.

Regards
Jules


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:58 
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Thanks.

I've sent the following email:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Libel on EDP forums
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 11:56:25 +0100
From: Paul Smith <psmith@safespeed.org.uk>
Organization: Safe Speed
To: peter.franzen@archant.co.uk

Hiya,

I'm sorry to bother you with this, but it appears that a poster in your forums
has made some libellous statements about me and my work. This is the link I've
been sent:
http://new.edp24.co.uk/forums/shwmessag ... eID=170570

I believe that the same individual has made similar libellous claims before
and has been banned from other forums.

I would appreciate it if you would be kind enough to get them removed
immediately.

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Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 00:50 
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Dunno if that worked - but just seen an interesting development on there.

Go check it out! :wink:

By the way - it ran over the wild :neko: on PH! :lol: She miaowed a little and then claws hit keyboard - so I read.... :lol: Appears contained to a point. You never know - it may be having a think about the whole issue and realising that road safety is about much,much more than a speed camera.....

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