Safe Speed Forums

I'm sure everyone has had this problem at some point. I'm not on about people who are terrified of cars fullstop, but when your passenger does not drive, is inexperienced, incompetent or just boring and drives an underpowered car.

You corner at a perfectly safe speed for your car and they're clinging onto the grab handle and complaining that you're going to spin off. You make a perfectly reasonable overtake and they insist that you can't possibly make it before that corner and are reaching for the handbrake.

Does anyone have any suggestions for calming down these people? Sometimes giving a running commentary helps if you're preparing for an overtake by getting a snapshot of the (lack of) oncoming traffic in advance of a dip where you plan to actually make the overtake, but only for a few people.

I could just refuse to give them a lift if they're going to moan, but does anyone have any better ways?

Keep a supply of Vallium and a blindfold in the glovebox.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

<Devils Advocate Mode>
Hmmm, does this happen to you a lot? If so, can they all be wrong?
<Devils Advocate Mode Off>

No, it does not happen to me a lot.

It happens whenever I'm giving my mum a lift in a decent car because she's not used to it, and it happens whenever I give my GF a lift in a crappy car as she has somehow managed to avoid ever driving a car that suffers from body roll.

Other than those it's just the odd acquaintance occasionally.

Sit them in the back so that at least they don't grab the hand brake...

I normally get them thinking in advance by telling them it is a road going rally car, and that while it accellerates a "bit" faster than most other cars on the road, the AWD means that it really holds the corners, and that the large disks with ABS and EBD really stops it quick. So if you tell them what you are going to do in a confident voice they tend to at least keep quiet until they have got their legs back at the end of the journey! (Sorry Mum). Oh and make sure that you don't actually drive like an idiot

If it was a "crappy" car, then I have no advice, because by definition it is not as good at accellerating, braking or cornering as most other vehicles on the road, so perhaps you should be taking it easy and just go with the flow.

I regularly sit in with some very talented rally drivers, and have observed (in normal driving) that they tend to have the ability to cover ground at a surprising pace without alarming nervous passengers. Conversely, I sometimes cadge a lift off a neighbour of mine and he terrifies me, but going at a fraction of the speed. I suppose this demonstrates that "you can't measure safe driving in miles per hour!"

But seriously, I think the key issues are driving smoothly, planning ahead, and positioning the car for maximum observation, so they can see what's going on.

Perhaps another approach is to change your priorities slightly. If you have a known bag of nerves sat next to you then aim to drive smoothly rather than quickly - instead of seeing how much you can scare them see how much you can put them at ease. You'll have to work harder but you'll probably end up going not much slower!

Cars with deep seats and little body roll tend to feel like they are cornering a lot slower than they actually are, too...

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Well, my normal car is a Subaru Legacy with AWD and Billstein suspension (and two turbos) so your comments above apply nicely



Crappy is a relative term and in the case of my GF it applied to the VW Golf GT TDI 4Motion that I had as a hire car as much as it applied to the Corsa 1.2 Twinport that sounded like a sewing machine. I'd say the Golf was pretty capable but the chassis still rolls somewhat in comparison to her car (Nissan 200SX).

I agree that neither are as capable, but it is still possible to make progress in a Corsa, you need to apply different cornering techniques and the overtaking technique needed would probably upset the IAM a bit.

Which program was it that put a chav in an Impreza and a rally driver in the chav's Nova 1.2 then let the rally driver waste the chav on a track? It's how you drive it that is the important thing.

I don't know, but did they really use the word "Chav"...?

Off topic, but I remember another comparitive test where the tyres were swapped between an all-out Subaru Impreza World Rally Car, and the road going equivalent. Once fitted with the competition tyres the standard road car trounced the rally car over a special stage! Just shows how marginal all the tuning and enhancements are, compared to a basic improvement in mechanical grip. I've remembered this ever since, when buying tyres...

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I bet you I can find some passengers that they could alarm The worst thing with my mum is when she is behind the wheel she is faster and more agressive than me, and she tailgates people who are going too slow for her!



I don't go out of my way to scare, but I don't want to hang about either. It is usually overtakes that scare them, the passenger can't see what's coming and you can't do much about that until just after you start your manouvre. You also can't do much about body roll on corners other than take them slower.



This is true.


As for the MPH thing, an event years back with my ex (who doesn't drive, and beleived the speed kills crap at the time) was quite amusing, we were on the M62 in my crappy MkIV Escort, pretty much empty road, now the thing with the Escort is it would hit the resonant frequency of the bodywork when doing between 75 and 100 MPH, which didn't bother her too much, then at 100 it suddenly stops and everything goes deathly quiet, this wakes her up, then she looks over at the speedo, then she shits herself.

At the end of the trip she admitted that she felt safe until she saw the number, so I'm probably right about speed.

No, they didn't use the word chav, it was back before that term had been invented and only the local tems existed (ie. Scally, Ned, Pikey* etc.) plus they couldn't openly slag off the guy who had agreed to be on the program could they?

And yes I agree with you on tyres. I generally put Eagle F1s on the Legacy, having them at the correct pressure helps too!

*yes I know this is also a derogatory term for gypsies, it is not being used in that context in this post, ok?

I think that "helps" is an understatement - with the relatively stiff suspension and AWD set-up of a Subaru it is vital. How many drivers (other than the enthusiasts) actually check their tyres regularly, and how often does this contribute towards an accident?

Speaking of which, said Eagle F1s (GDS3?) are very good in certain conditions, but leave something to be desired when driving over snow - to put it bluntly you might as well be running slicks. This is also true of many Summer tyres that are used in the UK, and I wonder how many lives would be saved if the UK encouraged the use of Winter tyres (NOT snow tyres, spiked ice tyres or chains - just proper Winter tyres)... Something else that the public should be educated about!

I know what you mean, especially on long journeys where 'pressing on' is well worth the effort. But I think you might need to look at it from their point of view as well. Trust comes into it, my wife is happy to travel with me at speed because she's basically comfortable with my hazard perception and safety margins etc. But thats because she has travelled thousands of miles with me. I think the key is to be a passenger a bit more often yourself. Whilst my car was having a service the other I was picked up and driven back to the dealership by one of the salesmen rather than their normal driver. He didn't drive badly but got a move on and basically wasn't smooth. I just didn't feel as comfortable and made a mental note...

My sister in law has also been a passenger in some horrific accidents so she is understandably anxious as a passenger. A mate recently said my driving (changing gear in particular) was not smooth enough and made him feel queezy. I was quite upset by this.

I think my problem is that I usually drive alone and I'm sure that increases the level of bad habits. So maybe the passengers are telling me something useful even if they are not in any danger. Perhaps I could be changing up a bit earlier, breaking for bends a bit earlier and more progressively...save the proper back road missions for myself

you've learnt how your car performs, built up a model in your head, and put your trust in the correctness of that model. you know what you can and can't do because your model tells you so.

as a passenger i reckon the same thing happens both with the car and the driver. you learn the response and you learn to trust the driver's response.

like learning a car you can't expect the passenger to do this instantly.


both myself and my colleague & my (old) boss underwent the same limit handling training for test driving. because i've spent alot more time as a passenger to him & vice-versa we completely trust the othere's driving.

on one occasion i could sit in complete calm on the way round a gravel circuit, watch the wildlife and fly a laptop for datalogging and know exactly where he was going to put the car and set it up.
put my boss in the car on the same circuit and i had to look at the sky and think calm thoughts ('sky, trees, birds... aaah') anything to stop me looking where he was going!

unfortunately for many people i've been passengers of the model in my head makes me more scared.. you just know how late they're going to leave the braking.. or that they're unlikely to have seen that car in the turning etc.

without wishing to bring the in-laws thing in here..... the speed and 'safeness' of my driving has been questioned by mine whilst at the same time both inlaws' driving has reduced me to a quivering wreck in the past (emergency lane change at 90 on dual carraigeway to avoid.... a bird?).. wibble

In the case of my GF I'm convinced it's purely down to her previous cars, she's never really driven a normal car (well, apart from an old Ford Sierra but as the last mass market RWD car it doesn't count) and just doesn't trust them. (even the GT TDI!)

OTOH, this Legacy is the first car I've owned that isn't a shitbox so I'm used to how they handle.

Hopefully I wont need another rental car again for a while so it wont be an issue.

If I know a passenger has been in an accident or something then it's a little different.

And yes you have correctly guessed that I do a lot of miles and mostly alone. As the stereotypical Subaru owner I love going fast on twisty NSL roads

(and yes my tyres are GSD3s and I know they're crap in snow)

I think it's also from looking at things from a passenger's perspective, rather than a driver's.
When you're driving, you're focused on the task and it's what you're accustommed to.
When you then get into the passenger seat, everything changes. Firstly, you're looking at the left-hand side of the road, which you're not used to, and you're not focused on the task of driving - and your brain has probably slowed down as well. So speeds which you're comfortable with as a driver suddenly start feeling very uncomfortable in the passenger seat.

Cheers
Peter

I dont do that as a passenger though. I seem to switch to car mode automatically.

This starts with an embarrasing stand on the incorrect side of my GFs 2-door car, and at some point she will ask why I keep checking the mirrors, looking each way at junctions, waving to the person who just let us out etc.

The last one must cause confusion when we have a disagreement over who had right of way, driver gives middle finger and passenger waves thanks

I do as JT - make sure passenger can see what's going on from positioning (but then - my passenger is usually another BiB or drivers like Mad Doc and Wildy anyway - They appreciate a smooth ride...at speed. )

But if you have a nervous passenger - usually my mother She hates anyone but herself driving... Even her BiB sons and our BiB father cannot drive her car "properly" - We find easiest way is to put gentle classical chill out music in the CD player and press the repeat programme button....and just keep it gentle - until she falls fast asleep Also find chocolates help with my mum too

But with my mum - it is more a case of being driven as opposed to driving herself. She is well into her 70s too and I still reckon her to be competent behind the wheel.

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Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

My most remembered stint as a passenger was with one of our rally drivers (Simon Evans) driving a Subaru through a state forest in the middle of the night.

He had permission from the council and he positioned cars at the only 2 entry points to the section of road he was using so that we would not have "unexpected" company on the road.

We followed the main road for about 30 seconds before heading off on a fire track up into the hills. We were doing speeds that seemed impossible at any time.

The thing was.... we were diving through HEAVY fog and could not see more than 2-3 car lengths ahead

An absolutely brilliant nights entertainment.

My wife took the next run and laughed the whole way through it.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

I normally place great emphasis on smooth progress (even if it also frequently includes some serious NSL transgressions) so that is standard procedure for me.

The idea of deliberately trying to scare a passenger who is already a bit nervous is quite out of order in my book. It is by no means a joke to be a passenger in a car driven by someone whose style makes you feel seriously frightened.

Driving in a manner (adjusted from my normal style as necessary) that can be seen to reassure a nervous passenger is, to me at least, more satisfying as a driving performance than just ignoring their feelings.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Where are people getting the idea from, that I am delibarately trying to scare passengers? If that were the case then I wouldn't have made this thread!

I'll accept that given that the vast majority of my journeys take 3 hours minimum that my driving style is not the most passenger friendly. I do (try to) drive smooth but I don't like to hang about.

I also don't want to deviate significantly from my preferred way of handling my car because then I will be less certain of how it will react.

It's balancing that last one against the needs of a nervous passenger that I find difficult.