Safe Speed Forums

I would just like to say it is great to find a web site with practical information for the new driver.

I passed my test in Feb (14th)- I spent the first month of driving worring about yellow boxes buy the road ,it became the focus of my attention (in the first two years of driving, if you get six points and you have to retake your test ).

Most websites focus on speed, and not how to deal with problems you can encounter on the road, or how to become a better driver.They basically say if you are within the limit are are safe.( I have only been driving three and a half months, and I know this is not the case.)

So this a Hail to the web site- for practical and very usefull information.

Any general tips and advice are welcome

A craystal ball would be nice as indicators don't seem to work on some cars.

Hi Ree - and welcome along.

I used to think one needed a crytal ball for those without indicators too. however - and not condoning the lack of consideration shown by those too busy to use indicators when it would help other road (and pavement) users - there are usually subtle signs of intention. It's not always easy to spot - and until you have a few years under your belt, I personally would only look out for them when you are passenger - there are more important things to look for as no doubt you've found.

I'm very pleased that you've got the message that being below the speed limit is not an automatic guarantee that you're not going too quickly.

Yes, there are many subtle signs that help you predict what other people are going to do, and in order to read them properly you need to see them in the first place - unfortuntaely you have been told to concentrate so much on the speedo, and (as you have already learnt) on locating speed traps, that this very important skill is neglected due to lack of time.

The clues are all given by the relative speed of the vehicle to those around it, and the relative position in the road. I will give a few very basic pointers, but it is all down to how you interpret the clues, and the one golden rule is to expect the unexpected.

1) On a dual carriageway or motorway, if you are in L2 and a car is in L1 and closing on a slower vehicle (e.g. Truck), and doesn't appear to be slowing down, then they have to change lanes, and will do. If there is an exit close, then they might take it, but you should act as if they are going to pull into L2 and make sure that there is a safe gap should they just change lanes on you. Watch the wheels relative to the white line - if they move across towards you, then he is changing lanes on you.

2) On a dual carriageway or motorway, if a car in either lane synchronises speed with the other lane and positions themselves by a gap between vehicles (although this gap can be very small) they are likely to change lane. This is most evident when approaching an exit, and because of the short time available they will move into the gap. At least in the exit situation they will then move off the road again almost immediately, if they are moving to the right, then typically anything that looks like a 1 second gap is fair game, and a 2 second gap is a huge space that just has to be pulled into. Again watch the wheels for confirmation.

3) In an urban environement a vehicle going at or slower than the limit with occasional slowing and accellerating is probably unfamiliar with the area and is looking for a specific road or building. If you can see the driver they are probably looking to the sides a lot with the occasional glance at a bit of paper. They will not indicate because you don't indicate until you know that you are going to pull off, so expect that they could could brake sharply at any time with the indicator maybe flashing after the manoeuvre. The wheels don't help here.

4) Any unexplaned slowing of a vehicle relative to the speed limit is normally explaned by the intention to pull-in somewhere - it is dangerous to overtake because they are just as likely to turn right as left and wheel position doesn't help, as if the exit is narrow they might be going wide to get a better angle.

5) On roundabouts in particular, but at many other complex junctions, the absolute confirmation of intention is the direction the front wheels are pointing. Forget the indicators they mean nothing (if on at all). So if you are waiting to pull out onto a roundabout and the car coming around shows you an increasing amount of the outside of the drivers front wheel, then they are pulling off down the road you are coming out of, if you can see less and less of it, then they are continuing around and you should stay put.

As Roger said it takes experience to read the clues properly, and the best way to learn is to practice anticipating what the other drivers will do, as a passenger is best because you can really spend time concentrating and anticipating. If you are passenger to a good driver that can read other drivers intentions, then you could make a game of it - if you get it wrong and the driver gets it right make sure that they explain why - it is the best way to learn. When you do read these clues correctly you are on your way to driving using COAST, because all we are talking about here is a few aspects of the Observe and Anticipate bits.

Rewolf said:



A description of COAST would also be a good idea, not least because we (read 'me' ) could all do with an occasional reminder.

And the golden rule - cyclists. what is *ALWAYS*
the *VERY FIRST* indication that something premeditated by the cyclist *MAY* be about to happen?
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.
.
.
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.
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They stop pedalling. This always, but always precedes any over shoulder glance, signal, repositioning... you name it. Of course, they may stop pedalling because they;ve reached a downhill stretch and are going fast enough, but these "false alarms" are few and far between!

Cheers for the tips
I am sure it will be of great help.

Imagine the absolute carnage if some w****r somewhere decided to put a scamera on a busy multi-exit roundabout.
Hardly bears thinking about.

Cheers
Peter

OK! For the new guys and for those who need a little reminder.

C

CONCENTRATION (and it also means COURTESY AND CONSIDERATION)

I reckon concentration should be a relaxed concentration. By this I mean that if you consciously try to concentrate - you may be concentrating on what you perceive to be correct behaviour and not concentrating at all. It is the sort of concentration which you use when watching a good film - looking at the points of interest and the nuances of the plot. It is a bout leaving the worries of what to have for tea or the argument with the boss or the wife or the best pal behind and focusing on the drive and the road ahead - watching the road furniture "tell you a story of what to expect ahead".


It is about not getting carried away by your CD player playing "Born to be Wild" - loudly!

It is about refraining from eating apples whilst driving, reading maps, and arguing with passengers or on the hands free set whilst driving.


Consideration is about being understanding: the person may have just passed the test or be new to the area.

It is about accepting people do make errors and not getting worked up about it. It is about dealing with it - safely.

O

OBSERVATION

This means what it says - use sight, ears and smell.

You need to scan systematically. The road paint on the road tells you about the hazards to expect (Check out "Know Your Road Signs!" (DSA publication).

It means using mirrors. and constantly adjusting your driving (and riding if on two wheels and I do include the cyclist contingent and lurkers on here in this too )

It means looking at the road layout - continuously assessing the moving point and the limit point on the road as it unfolds ahead of you.

It means observing other traffic: the ball under the parked car, the potential chap who may open the door or just set off without the life saver glance over his shoulder (and again this applies to cyclists as they are the ones who get caught the most by this numpty error )

It means positioning for view (see Ian's excellent diagram on cornering and apex in the "Cornering" thread in the "Improve Driving" forum on this site) Positioning for view depends on circumstances at the time -but you need to ensure you can observe the antics of the driver at least two cars ahead of you!

It means keeping eyes moving and using peripheral vision.

It means being aware of that line of persons at a bus stop means bus is around here somwhere.

It means using every means of observation at your disposal.

Smell of cut grass? Council workers on the loose.

A

ANTICIPATION

More time you have to react to a hazard - the better.


It is based on your observations. Their behaviour, position, head , hand and general progress all give you clues. Never assume they will behave as you do.

Once you have observed and anticpated - you then have to plan - take control of the situation. react to the hazards ahead and defend yourself. Because "PLAN" is so difficult to define we split this as follows:

S

SPACE

This is the two second rule. You give space to the tailgater and increase your space for reactions.

It means adjusting speed to the safest one for the conditions ahead. It means reacting to what might reasonably be expected to happen and you are responding to what can be seen and what cannot be seen

It is about dropping your speed so that you can see what is happening 2- 3 vehicles ahead of you.

T

TIME

Time is linked to the above. It is your two second gap. It is the time you allowed for your journey. It is the time you allow for other road users in your planning and decisions based on the above OAP per "ROADCRAFT"


There are lots of variations of COAST - but these are the main ones.

I cannot stress its importance enough - and this little word forms the basis of DIS and Speed Aware courses where offered. It is a part of my training as well - and we do include elements of it in our lectures to naughty-ish drivers here.

It should have more prominence on the Partnership sites - especially thos which offer Speed Awares as alternative to points. It could help improve standards after all. It appears to work here -but then it is delivered on the spot by slightly amused BiBs.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

If you like IG, I can engrave that for you in stone!

Or you could have it on a keyring or a mug!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Well for my money that is post of the month. I've seen several explanations of COAST over the years. Would IG mind if Paul "elevated" that to a sticky somewhere/somehow - assuming Paul feels the same way of course?

I think the 'space' thing is broader and potentially more important than it appears from these useful notes.

There are fundamentaly two planes of useful space - the first is logtitudinal - the gap in front and behind. We should adjust our speed so that we can stop withing the SPACE we know to be clear ahead. We should find strategies that enable us to manage a safe space behind. (Yes you can! See http://www.safespeed.org.uk/tailgate.html ) The second is lateral space - how closely we pass to hazards and other road users. When the road is clear and there's an obstruction on the left - especially an unpredictable one like a horse - it makes sense to move well to the right. More lateral seperation gives more time to react.

Ah, yes... Time to react. This is a very fundamental quantity of safe driving - we create time to react by slowing in good time when there's danger or potential danger. Travelling more slowly increases the value of the available space. (and before anyone (basingwerk!) screams: that's why we need speed limits - this is exactly the fundamental limitation of speed limits - time to react space must be created at all times not just at higher numerical speeds.

Space is very very closely related to speed. More space means more speed is safe. More hazards mean less speed and making the most of available space. In this way, time to react is matched to space and risk by adjusting speed. This is the basic method of hazard negotiation.

This page is helpful in this regard: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/timetoreact.html

It's space and pace, fish and chips, bacon and eggs. You can't have one without the other.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Yes... agreed. The best way will be to do a COAST web page. I can base it on Ingear's notes (with permission of course) and add some more besides.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Good move - better there than sticky in the forums.

But of course. Delighted.


Got some other notes on how create space, risk assessment, skid control and adverse weather - people do not realise the very bright sunshine is as bad as fog and heavy rain. Amazing how many we get "blinded by the light"! Shall either post 'em or mail 'em for your page - whichever as page can be linked to forum for comments anyway.

Cheers!

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Some top quality posts here!

In Gear's analysis of coast is definitely worthy of a safe speed page, and Rewolf's excellent analysis of specific events is the practical application of that theory. .

My own driving 'motto' is heavily plagiarised from 'Roadcraft' - a worthy buy for any motorist. It is to make 'Safe, Smooth, Courteous Progress.' This is applicable in all circumstances. The first three words, Safe, Smooth and Courteous are the restricting factors and incorporate 'COAST'. Once full consideration is continually given to all three, then progress can be made.

The only obvious external factor coming into play is the applicable speed limit. It's correct that there should be a limit and it should influence ones considerations, especially when considering courtesy.

For the maximum impact of safe driving using the above motto, I'd like to see drivers being heavily influenced by the speed limit but not threatened by it.

_________________
Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Welcome Ree

I think my colleagues "up north" have stolen most of the things I was going to say !!

It's all about anticipation - assume that everyone else on the road is a half wit with the attention span of a gnat and you won't go far wrong - not because everyone else is thick, but because you'll be expecting unusual movements from other vehicles.

In all honesty, the general standard of UK driving is better than often portrayed - if you don't believe me, just try Milan in the rush hour!!

Oh, and don't forget that motor manufacturers sell a version of all their models in which the indicators are disabled at the factory. They obligingly highlight these to other road users by placing the word "TAXI" on the vehicle

Best of luck with your driving career !

Once again thanks gents

Have taken the adivce,driving has started to feel a bit less streesfull

And taken my Born to be wild CD out of my player.

_________________
Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

Hmm, far better to be listening to some decent music than all this hip-hop crap preferred by chavs in Corsas and Saxos

Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway...

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I quite agree.

However it did make me think:

When asked by one of my pupils would I put a "PHAT sub" into my boot, he looked quite confused when I informed him I like to use my boot to put things in .


I was also informed that some new rims would make my car sick, because at the moment my wheels look wack!

Off the point abit, but some different views on motoring .

Note:
Phat: Good.
Sick: Good/Very good.
Sub: Subwoofer.
Rims: Alloy wheels.
Wack: Bad/ribbish.

_________________
Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

I was recently walking along a local street when a really spoilered-up bright yellow Mitsubishi Evo drove past. One of a group of teenage girls said "that's the phattest car I've ever seen!"

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed