Safe Speed Forums

Reading many of the recent posts in many of the forums it is becoming apparent that one major point keeps recurring - the setting of inappropriate speed limits for road geography and conditions.

Although this may not directly contribute to road safety, the proper setting of limits is key to reducing driver confusion and frustration. Perhaps we should press for improved public input on this subject.

Come to think of it, who do we approach to lobby for a speed limit variation? Who is responsible for setting limits? Who gets it so hopelessly wrong on many occasions?

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Speed limits are generally set by local highway authorities. However, the Highways Agency (and the equivalent branches of government in Scotland and Wales) is responsible for speed limits on the trunk road network - basically virtually all motorways and some major A-roads.

The key web resource is the ABD's page on Speed Limits - how they are set and your right to object

In my experience local councillors often approach speed limit setting from a position of profound ignorance and it is far from uncommon for them to overrule the advice of local police and their own professional highways officers.

The official guidelines (often blatantly ignored by councils) can be found here

There's also a lot of material about speed limits on my website (see link in sig.)

While I don't by any means agree with every speed limit change done by the Highways Agency, in general they avoid the utter stupidity and/or malevolence of some local council cuts.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

If say a village is in an NSL limit and the parish council want traffic to slow down, they will apply to the (say) County Council for a 30 limit. Of course most of the fast merchants are the locals who "know the road". All too often they will get a 40 limit instead which seems to encourage drivers to do 40 or more where before they may have been doing 35. If collisions start occurring then eventually the limit may be brought down to 30. Most of the limits have been around since the year dot, they will get expanded as settlements grow but they are not often changed except downwards.
I'm trying to think of changes to limits around here - a couple of years ago a stretch of NSL was made 40 after a football stadium was built, I think that's about it. And another couple of 40s were added onto the extremities of 30s. So limits don't change much!

The roads all around where I work are "country lanes" and appear yellow on OS maps. When I first came here in 1998 these were all NSL on single carriageways. About 5 years ago - for no apparently good reason - they were all made 40 mph limits. I remember just prior to the imposition of the limits that the police checked people's speed locally after the usual "they all do 100mph" complaints and found no problems.

About 9 months ago there was the first local accident I can remember. This was a head on leading to the death of one driver (who was not wearing a seat belt) and was caused by a careless driver turning left and going onto the other side of the road.

Conclusion: the lower speed limit has had no effect in improving safety on these roads. If the money spent on signing the 40 mph limit had been spent on properly signing the junctions instead then a life would probably have been saved.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Wanna bet?

See:

http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/slr.html

And if you lived in Suffolk or Oxfordshire the situation would be far, far worse, with 30s extending at least half a mile beyond the last house in every village, and most high-standard rural main roads now 50s.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Perhaps not around where you live.

Cheers
Peter

This highlights the whole problem of speed policy in the UK.

By and large, most roads police themselves when the limit is logical and correct - i.e., it reflects the driving conditions the majority of people would deem appropriate. Just as anyone asking for a NSL through a village or past a school would be a nutter, so is anyone asking for a 40 limit on a dual carriageway. Most people don't drive like idiots on bendy country roads - the ones that do usually end up in hedges or trees. Isn't that evolution by natural selection?

The big problem is limits are set by councils without a clue (as in most areas councils get involved in, they're a waste of space). I've been told twice by two council officials that they know best in setting limits, and I know NEITHER OF THEM CAN DRIVE

If limits seem logical, most people will respect them.

Rumour had it that the Reading ring road and one system was dreamt up by a non-driver. It would explain a lot.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Here is an example of a letter I received from a council official when I complained about the reduction of the speed limit on a dual carriageway with no houses at all on it from 70 mph to 40 mph.

To paraphrase, "we know there are guidelines, but we can cheerfully ignore them."

And the phrase "a holistic approach to reducing the sporadic collisions along the route" beggars belief.



40 along there really is taking the piss

Incidentally, since they reduced the speed limit, they have also resurfaced the road and introduced street lighting, which will obviously also have an impact on the number of accidents, although undoubtedly any improvement will be put down to the speed limit cut.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

They'll probably then use the street lights as a justification for a 30 limit...

Priceless letter, Peter. The bit that had my jaw dropping was the part along the lines of "since we only got three letters about it we believe that all the drivers who use that road must support it". Presumably they consulted the drivers by the usual mean of a 2" advert buried deep in the local papers and half a dozen A4 pages on trees and lamp posts on the road itself. If so, most drivers won't have known until the lollipops changed one day. Of course they won't get many letters when a change is announced in such a way that hardly anybody knows about it, but if they honestly believe that qualifies as support they're delusional.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I live in Norfolk, which at present doesn't seem to bad although I have noticed limits creeping down here and there, most of which were totally unnecessary of course.

Suffolk is an absolute nightmare though, I drive on the A143 on my way to Cambridge most Tuesdays and the limits are ridiculously low in some places, 30 or 40mph limits that don't reflect danger levels at all. These are ignored by nearly everyone else, I rarely come across anyone else doing exactly the limit and when they do I just get incredibly irritated as there is no reason that 50 or 60mph could not safely be achieved.

The A140 is the worst though, it is the only main road between Norwich and Ipswich, and the Suffolk stretch of this road no longer has a single NSL section, despite there being several long, straight stretches of road surrounded by nothing but fields. I've done 70mph along parts of it that are now 40mph with no problems at all, and I wouldn't expect any competant driver to have any difficulties on those sections either. There are 3 cameras along it (none on the Norfolk side), of which only 1 could reasonably be justified (speed limit was recently reduced from 40 to 30 though so I smell a rat).

I think that Walsall Borough Council is trying to get into the "Guinness Book of Records" as the UK's most Politically Correct and inept setter of speed limits.

Earlier today I drove from the M5/M6 junction to Aldridge (part of Walsall) by the direct route that I used to use regularly (not over that way much any more, thank Dog!). The road is best described as a "country lane" but is comfortably wide enough for two vehicles. It used to be NSL. It is now about 25% 30mph limit with the remainder 20mph, plus over a dozen very sharp and steep humps. It's possible that the idea is to force motorists to take the major-road route, which is much longer, but even so...

To add further insanity, there are two stretches of road a little further on that are dead-straight, good surface, excellent visibility and rural - that up to about a year ago were NSL, were then reduced to 40mph and are now 30mph. No cameras yet, but this is the council that is responsible for the Cannock to Bloxwich road which has, I believe, the highest density of cameras in the UK.

To add to the stupidity. The above-mentioned straight NSL roads used to lead into a 30mph area where the houses at the edge of Aldridge start. This sign has now been removed as the road leading into it is 30 for its whole length. In "the old days" traffic used to travel at generally 45 - 65 in the NSL then slow to a fairly good approximation of 30 at the speed limit signs.. Today I noted that the traffic travelled at about 40 - 50 in the rural part of the now-30-limited road and hardly slowed down at the point where the old 30 limit used to start. Net result of this stupid PC exercise appears to be to have increased the speed of the traffic through the built-up zone by about 10mph!

I've heard it said that "Military Intelligence is a contradiction in terms" - it looks like "Town Planning" may well be the same!

_________________
"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

short of ripping out the sign posts or turning them to face the hedge there is little you can do.

the councils use the 1mph speed reduction = 5% reduction is crashes and the TRL guidance that pretty much all decent NSL should be 50mph, with a hint of a side road dropping it to 40mph. they do regularly ignore the police, and any data that suggest the reduction increased accidents.

Surrey CC are appauling at daft limits although not as bad as oxford.

Every year since about 97 they have reduce between 20 and 30 roads from NSL. The A3 which is a motorway class A road has a 50 limit on it and most B roads are now getting the 30mph treatment. And the major link to the M3 A322 now has a 50 limit. Because the vast majority of drivers stick to 60 - 70 they are now easy picking for the new scamerati.

The consultation process is utter crap - Drivers get a little small font A5 notice pinned to a lamp post and even if you do object they ignor you.

those who really get a say are those who would largely benefit from traffic reductions. So it's a no brainer.
Don't bother talking to the council write to your paper - it causes more problems.

The only (not particularly legal thing you can do) to prevent a talivan from enforcing daft limits is to bag the odd repeater sign as this makes the limit invalid

I personally think we should collectively bombard 1 or 2 councils about a specific limit such they they get 200 - 300 letters. this is about 30 times more than they normally get and will create chaos.