Safe Speed Forums

Last night I crossed the main road at a toucan crossing. Along came WPC Numpty driving a Ford focus slower than the traffic ahead and well below the speed limit. She's got a phone in her right hand (OK, it's probably a radio but it has a large phone handset) and her left hand is clutching a document to the steering wheel. About half a second before she reaches the crossing the little green man illuminates and the bleeper sounds. WPC Numpty drives straight across.

No, I didn't get her registration -- she'd gone before the realization dawned as to how dangerous had been her driving and that she'd broken two or more laws:

• Failure to stop at a red light
• not in complete control of the vehicle
• driving without due care and attention
• on the phone

I know that the police are understaffed and wonder just how much overwork contributed to this classic multi-tasking incident.

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Will

Panda on the same road as last night. Male PC at the wheel tailgating the Transit van in front. If it takes one-fifth of a second for each syllable of "own-lee-ah-fool-breaks-the-two-sek-ond-rule" (ten syllables), he was three-fifths of second behind the vehicle he was following (I managed "only a" between the tailgated vehicle and the panda passing the same fixed point).

100 yards or so after passing me, the tailgated vehicle turned left with nary a flick of his indicators. The panda had to brake sharply to avoid a collision.

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Will

Report the incidents... All police vehicles have a log book which the driver has to complete with their details and recorded mileage etc... they should be easily identifiable..

Doesn't sound like the driving was of a standard you would expect from what you've said...

Will

You really should keep log and report these incidents! From what you tell us - the cops in your neck of wood need retraining - fast.

To be honest, I'd thought about it but I'm genuinely concerned about reprisals.

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Will

Will

No need to be afraid! Someone like me will get your letter and be quite concerned and human!

But - keep it polite and as non-accusing as possible! It will help you get your point across.

We want to provide good services - and if our staff are "underperforming "- we need to know about it!

Asside from the fact that neither of these officers are likely to be advanced trained, The standard has dropped though hasn't it?

From talking to a couple of serving riders a while back there seem to be very few class 1s now (only class 2) or has the scheme been changed?

Yes diy

There have been some changes - and not all for the better! Differences between Forces, recruitment resources etc etc - and of course I am bound to say "Things ain't what they were in my day!" (um -- um - 5 -0 next Birthday!!!) Help! But few grey hairs - though my kids have tried hard! As have criminals in motor cars!

We have been modified and grouped to respond to shouts more effectively - in fact we have just put together "an elite Force", combining trafpol strength with other areas of policing - which basically means trafpols have other duties besides lurking in side streets to catch you lot tonning it past us! (But we still get you! )

Still - on aggregate we are still very well trained, though less of us are the old Class 1 standard! (Scameras????) Or?????

Course I will have to discount Will's patch and North Wales from what I hear and read on-line!

I've often wondered whether it is possible for a member of the public to perform a citizens arrest on a uniformed police officer for committing an arrestable offence?

Possible - never heard of it happening though! Bit dicey without witnesses as well!

Think you would be best advised to get name and number and make complaint via official channels if you think cop is bogus or bent .

In Gear

I was just curious. I certainly am not planning it.

Out of piqued curiousity, which motoring offences are arrestable?

I have recently noticed plain white cars with 4 coppers on board traveling in excess of at least 90 mph on my stretch of the A1m.

No blues & 2s, and they always seem to come off at the junction for W.G.C police HQ.

I can only assume it is some sort of training. To think that an officer can legally drive safely above the Speed limit, whilst we are fined for doing the same thing.

Hypocrites

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Steve

The usual and you will find these at back of the HC


1. causing death by dangerous driving - Max 10 years, two year plus ban and ulnimited fine - Have to prove "dangerous" as "beyond reasonable doubt" in court - even if obvious - not that easy to stick! Various variations - driving in dangerous manner, at dangerous speed, reckless driving, causing death by reckless driving, dangerous driving and culpable homicide.

2. Causing death whilst under influence of drink and/or drugs - max as above.

3. Driving under influence of drink/drugs or failing to provide specimen - 6 month jail, up £5k fine and ban - court decides length. Does include attempting to drive with blood alcohol above limit - ie opening car door.

Retest usually obligatory after these type of bans.

4. Failure to stop after accident/failure to report accident. (24 hours)

5. Driving whilst disqualified.

6. Driving after licence revoked on medical grounds.

7. Driving without insurance - usually placed them in cells for the night if they got me!

8. Foreigners copped speeding. Well - they may abscond before paying the fine!

9. Calling me rude names when I have pulled them! (It's verbal assault!)

10. Overloaded car.

11. taking and driving car without consent, stealing car, equipped to steal car.

12. Defective car - may confiscate car if too dangerous.

13. Other defects - may issue 7 day rectification notice.

14. Others - seat belt, speeding (unless really dangerous), no MOT, dangerous, careless cycling, traffic light offences , failure to submit to eye test, failing eye test, contravention of pedestrian crossing, failing to comply with directions of traffic officer, overtaking on double whites at above 10mph (will let you off if avoiding accident!)

These would usually be verbal NOIP and relevant forms etc etc. And my acid lecture too - so you wiukd really get value for money!

Could be! Could have been on duty!

We do not usually perform pursuit training on public highways - we book airfields.

Training is to high standard, driving standards are moniotred continuously and we make use of all resources possible when on a shout!

Er, the HC says that you may overtake on double whites if the vehicle (tractor, cycle, horse etc) you're overtaking is doing 10mph or less. I sincerely hope you're not going to nick me for passing them at above 10mph

Regards
Peter

Ah! That's what I like to see - LERTS who actually read the HC! You are allowed to straddle double whites if circumstances are beyond reasonable control and to avoid an accident. Course if you increased you speed to 16-17mph to pass the horse travelling at 12mph - I'd 'ave you!

You could startle the 'oss!

Can't tell if you're being serious there, but that's slightly puzzling - it's illegal to overtake them faster than 10mph, even though it's been decided that that stretch of road is unsafe to be on the other side of the carriageway (I presume that's why the double whites are there!) - so you have to crawl past, staying on the other side of the road for an extended period of time?

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Yes, you must crawl past. This is the effect that the Safe Speed rule has once you are on the wrong side of the road. Imagine an oncoming vehilce - he's set his speed so that he can stop within the distance he can see to be clear, but during the time it takes him to stop you have advanced into his safe braking zone.

On single track roads, one has to drive at such a speed that one can stop in half the distance you know to be clear - this allows for the other chap's braking distance.

If one is on the wrong side of a double white line system, any speed at all may compromise oncoming traffic's ability to stop. Even 10mph is too much really. If one does need to pass something on the wrong side of a double white line system, slower is better.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

For a change, I find myself disagreeing with you.
On most sections of road with a double white line you can see oncoming traffic for at least several seconds before it reaches you. It's only in places such as close to bends and blind rises where you can't - and one can argue that you shouldn't overtake at all at those places.
For instance, if you can see traffic coming around the bend ahead around five or six seconds before it reaches you, and you know you can pass the tractor etc and be back on your side of the road within two or three seconds, then it's safe to do so. But if you go crawling past it may take you five or six seconds, or more, to get back onto your side - and anyone coming around the bend in this time would be forced to take emergency action.

The longer you spend on the wrong side of the road, the greater the danger - this applies to all overtaking.



No. It's illegal to overtake them if THEY'RE doing more than 10mph.



In my experience, horses often get decidedly twitchy if you drive behind them for a long period. In some cases it may be better to pass but give them as wide a berth as possible. But it's really a judgement call, as with most other things. But I agree that one can't be too careful around horses.

As an aside, speedometers often don't start registering until one is above 10mph, so it may be difficult to know whether the horse, or whatever, is doing 10mph or 12mph, so this is a bit of a grey area if one sticks to the letter of the law. But it should be easy to tell the difference between a safe manoeuvre and a dodgy one.

Regards
Peter