Safe Speed Forums

You're absolutely right Gixxer, the risk (both in respect of collision and road rage) is increased by the 'do-gooder' who wishes everyone to conform to his idea of correct procedure.

Unfortunately this also applies to our natural wish to antagonise or disrupt the middle lane hogger, and tailgater. In each case the appropriate action is to consider ones own safety and remove yourself from the risk as soon as reasonable.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

If I'm in no rush I really don't care why the bloke behind is in a hurry. Character and motivations are of absolutely no importance whatsoever. If he wants to pass it's better for both of us if I can facilitate that. Go right round a roundabout, speed up (as fast as is safe of course) if I know there's DC or a good overtaking spot ahead, take a few side roads and get back on the main road further along, whatever gets me out of his way with the minimum of fuss. There's just no point in allowing ego or my opinion of his character to get in the way of safety.

I just wish I got the same consideration when I'm in a hurry. I can't think how many times I've had a good overtaking opportunity turned into an iffy prospect by the behaviour of the bloke ahead. Gap closers, night time headlight dippers, the ones who position themselves to block your view just enough to put you off, and worst of all the headcases who f ing speed up when you're alongside in the other lane. I've had one that according to my passenger did so while glaring at me instead of looking where he was going! I wouldn't normally even think this, but it would have served the silly sod right if he'd driven into the ditch.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I look after myself and my own safety, with an eye to helping other people out too. If a dummy in suit gets all worked up, that tough luck for him, but I can’t care less as long as he doesn’t bother me with it.



Don’t make me laugh - do they use ‘BUMSTEAD AND BERKBASTARD, PAINTING AND DECORATING’ vans to carry vital blood supplies?



I didn't see it – only moronic couch potatoes watch "Britain's Worst Drivers".

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I stole this .sig

They're welcome to pass, but if they tailgate me, they choose to go at my pace (which is reasonable, I assure you), not the other way round.

I’m sure you would agree that any copper who encourages victims of tailgating to break the law to assuage the perpetrators would be well advised to find another line of work.

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I stole this .sig

If you can read the signwriting on a van behind you I think you might be spending too much time looking in the wrong direction.

Well, I wouldn't want to watch anything with "Britain's Worst" or "From Hell" in the title, but any program showing really bad driving can at least serve as an example of what not to do. At worst it's just cheap entertainment that some of us don't like. By all means slag off the program makers if you think it's poor quality entertainment, but I don't think slagging off people who want to watch it is justified.


If I understood Nick Freeman on that other TV program, that can actually be a valid defence. Isn't it more or less what he used to get David Beckham off?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

It’s the same knob-head in the same van every day!



I know that was harsh – but Gixxer accused me of being the slowpoke in the show (he used the word 'prick' actually). He’s a right ‘un, so the least I could do was explain that some people don’t spend each night slumped in front of the box watching third rate shows. I’m far too upper-crust for that – there are plenty of second rate shows on the other side which are far better!



I don’t know – only moronic couch potatoes watch Tonight With Trevor McDonald! Just joking, GatsoBait!!! Actually, I'd like to open the field on that one. If you are zooming along at a fair clip but under the limit, and another road-user (say a suit in a grey car, or a white van guy ) comes along and tailgates you, should you a) act as if he is not there b) speed up and break the limit because he is in a hurry c) flip him the bird and stamp on your brakes d) gently slow down to give him a hint that it's time to get past e) let him start to pass then run him into a telegraph pole?
Any other options?

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I stole this .sig

That doesn't mean you're looking in the right direction. Try again.


Er... does that mean it wasn't you then?


My answer is here. http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=32717#32717

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

And mine is that I look after myself, with an eye to helping other people out too. If a tailgater gets all road ragey, that's tough, but I can’t care less - they're welcome to pass (I'll leave them space), but if they choose to tailgate me, they choose to go at my pace (which is a reasonable one but within the limit). What more can anyone expect than that, Gatsobait? No way will I risk getting pinged on account of a hare-brained, tailgating pin-head!

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I stole this .sig

Doesn't sound a whole lot different to me.


I'm not suggesting you should get yourself pinged on their account, but there are ways to get rid of a tailgater legally and safely. And it's worth doing so if only because he's endangering you so long as he's there. He may, to use your words, be choosing to go out your pace, but that's cold comfort if the idiot takes both of you off the road isn't it?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I know - that's why I mentioned option (e) "let him start to pass then run him into a telegraph pole". Is there one amongst us who has not been tempted?

We make every allowance for buffoonery of all kinds - we have to - but if a mild mannered chappie like me gets thinking like that, I'd imagine that some reptiles actually use option (e)!

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I stole this .sig

I know you're joking, but having been on the receiving end of some stupid behaviour while overtaking I'm not exactly laughing.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Thanks for that - at the end of all this, that's my point. Overtaking means you are going out of your lane and going straight into the on-coming lane. Whatever we say, that makes it an exceptional act for many drivers. They will only do it when everything is right; one thing not quite right, then they don’t do it. Any doubt, they don’t do it. Even if they just don’t feel up to it, they don’t do it! And that’s absolutely OK, I reckon – we have to deal with that.

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I stole this .sig

I agree with te principle - responsibilities are held individually. But in practice if he's anywhere near you it's quite reasonable to expect that you might get caught up in any increase in risk. A safer conclusion is to manage his temper as much as possible in order to minimise your risk.

And why on earth are you bothered to write 'dummuy in suit'? In my experience the percentage of dummies wearing suits is quite small. Have you got something against suits?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'll presume you're simply misunderstanding my point Basingwerk, which in honestly could have been made more clearly.

I was meaning the type of person who goes out of his way to show others how to drive, by sitting at 70 in the 3rd lane having completed his overtake some time earlier, but feels that 'Mr Impatient' behind needs to be taught a lesson.

I have no quarrel with you if I'm behind you at the speed you see to be fit for the road as long as it's not ridiculous, and you give me every opportunity to pass if I want to.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

It’s the same knob-head in the same van every day!


I think this tells us all we need to know............


MoJo

[

I had a tipper driving tailgating me literally a few inches of my bumper today because I had the nerve to slow from a 40 for a 30 zone. After a few moments I decided it was safer to keep left, slow down a little and let him pass as it was a fairly wide road, which I did as it wasn't really subtible to go three abreast for any length of time. That was proberbly the safest thing to do but it didn't stop me from feeling bloody annoyed about it. Why should people get away with bullying people to pull over by tailgating on the limit? The limit probably should have been higher, and I certainly don't think I was safer driving at 30mph but I wasn't from the area and it looked like a classic mobile speed trap zone. I feel frustrated that I was intimidated into breaking the law. If I hadn't have pulled over but there was a safe gap I'd have had no issue with him overtaking but I shouldn't be made to feel like I have too to prevent an accident.

Oh yeah and I caught him up and every set of lights until I turned off! I think that was what annoyed me most actually - that there was no good reason to tailgate me as it was highly unlikely that he was going to get an advantage.

But that is my point BW, you carry on with the old "you are going at my pace and i'm not moving for you" malarky, and the chances are that the "dummy in the suit" will then channel any anger he has towards you.
This form of anger could be anything from a few simple hand signals implying that you spend too much time playing with yourself, to being dragged out at the next set of lights and receiving a beating that is so hard you spend the next 6 months being fed via a drip.


Why not??

My friend & I are both "blood runners" during the evenings and operate between Southampton & Portsmouth. He is a self employed motor mechanic and uses his (clearly signwritten) works van, while I use a fairly old Kawasaki GPz 750 Turbo which has been hand sprayed matt black and gives the appearance that the only way it passed it's last MOT test was because I performed fellatio on the MOT tester.
You can rest assured that the last thing we (or the prospective patient) needs in our way when the blood is "on ice" is Mr Righteous who failed the entrance exam at Hendon.
It doesn't matter how you try to dress it up, road "hogging" to slow others down is selfish (and potentially dangerous), pure & simple.


I didn't accuse you of anything, go back and read what I wrote again

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Only skimmed throught his thread at high speed .....




It is a tricky skill to teach as each overtake is more or less unique to its own circumstance. I think basingmate makes a valid point when he mentions the penny pinching as well.

(Note to PaulF basingmate is OK - he agrees I deserve my job now - he though I was a dynosaur who should be extinct twelve months ago... )

But back to the overtaking and the problem..... DIS, and just three of the eleven Speed Awares on offer teach COAST as basics - the rest just taking the money and offering a hazard perception video...

C in an overtaking scenario is consideration - you assist the overtaker and the overtaker and overtakee alike has an obligation regarding "safety, legality and consideration"

COA - are the consideration, observation, anticipation areas ... but as far as the overtaking problem goes we are in, as Paul pointed out in my COAST post to ree.t, the very problematic area of SPACE CREATION!

The trick is always to create SPACE so that you can plan, prepare and excecute any manoeuvre, taking account of the unexpected. This, I think, is the "lost art" of the overtake

Speed has to link with position as well - and choosing the correct ger is important.

You have to be satisfied that the overtake or any manoeuvre is safe to even attempt - and in an overtake - sure - you accelerate to ensure the overtake is as safe and efficient as possible - but this does not and shoudl not mean a lunge approach of a several car overtake.

All driving plans should be flexible - subject to fine tune at all times. You never tick things off as you do them - life is not like that - and driving a car, motorcycling and riding a bicycle require the flexibiluty of COAST idea at all times. COAST is, after all, flexible.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I understand your point, but I'm not sure how you got there. The stupid behaviour was on the part of overtakees while I was overtaking safely and non-agressively (i.e. not roaring up behind and steaming by). What difference does it make that it is an exceptional manoeuver? Some idiots just don't like being overtaken and IMO they're no better than the ones who want to bully their way past. Both varieties create danger for other motorists.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein