Safe Speed Forums

I know I maybe preaching to the converted here, but I just can't beleive the state of public transport these days. Yesterday I was due to pick someone up from the local train station, but got a call to say they'd be an hour later because they had missed a connection because the train was late. One hour later I'm waiting again because now this train is late - with no announcements.

It hardly came as a suprise, I've used that line on occasions and can't remember the last time it was on time. Then in the evening I tried to get a bus into town but it just did not turn up! And they are only every half an hour which left me standing there like a lemon as I'd waited long enough there didn't seem much point in calling a cab so waited for the next one. This is the second time recently its failed to show up.

What I want to know is how the government and certain environmental weird-beards expect us to give up our cars when public transport is so utterley useless? There's just no way you can plan reliable journeys, theres no 'joined up thinking' - we don't current have a any buses that serve the towns main railway station - hence why I had to pick them up as they had suitcases.

It's also shockingly expensive to use as well, the bus costs £1.30 for a 2mile trip into town. What's that in petrol - 40p maybe, maximum? Recently enquired about a trip to Edinburgh, about 190 miles one way - for 2 of us it worked out at £144 return! Right ok thats bad enough and was because of engineering works meaning the joirney would have taken about 6 hours involving a coach journey part of the way - hence no cheaps seats available.

Whats going on? Why do we put up with such a shocking public transport system and therefore put up with the critisism from some corners for refusing to give up our cars?

I totally agree. It's cheaper to FLY from Southampton to Edinburgh than get a train. And if you do want to get a train you have to drive to the station with luggage and they fleece you to park, so it's a loser all round.

Buses on the Island are seen by many as the worst in Europe. It costs just over £2 each way to go from Cowes to Newport (5 miles) and takes half an hour with a half hour wait for the bus. Buses often don't turn up.

How long would you last in a job if you went by bus? About 3 days at that rate of reliability.

Totally agree. As for me I lost my car key when at work..so I got a lift home (27 miles)
The next day I decided to go to work by bus with my spare key.
I started out at 07:15. (First bus) got to work at 10:30 three bus changes later and had the privilege of parting with over £4.00.
The journey normally takes me 35 minuets by car and I get there and back for a gallon of diesel.
There used to be a train track years ago but some dipstick called Beacham decided to rip um up.
And they say they want us on public transport (HA!) wot a joke

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I'm disgusted at the way this government is fleecing the people of this country. In particular the use of Speed cameras to mug motorists and claim its road safety. I'm disgusted at the threatening NIPs that people receive they break the human rights act

Airports V Train Stations

Airports
Clean environment
Good parking provision
Good shopping, food provision
FREE CLEAN toilets
FREE car park/hotel shuttles
Good information and travel advice available
Good seating provision

Train Station
Mostly inaccessible by car
Filthy environment,
Toilets you have to PAY to use (London anyway)
Ignorant and unhelpful staff
A few rubbish shops selling expensive inedible food
Inadequate seating

My wife came back from London with our youngest child a few months ago by train. When she took the child to the toilet in the station she had to step over a heroin adict that was shooting up... Never had that at an Airport.

In a nut shell...British public transport is a dinosaur. Expensive, inadequate, antiquated, and not in any way customer focussed. The only reason I can think that ANYONE uses it is if they have no other choice.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Ditto To Every thing said So far. The local Rail station near me has had services Cut, Local Bus routes Being taken/ took off due to revenue loss. National Express coach To London From The Local Bus station takes FOUR Hours to get there(Aprrox 140 miles) I know they have to make it pay. They certainly do encourage us to give up our car(s).
If any one does have a suggestion to Improve the transport system - Send them to Mr. A. Darling C/O 10 Downing Street, LONDON

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RoADA Member -GOLD 2008
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.

One of my kids started work for the first time today. She has got a scooter but it needs a servce so I suggested she got the bus.

The place she is working is 14 miles away. About 20-25 mins by car even in traffic.

Using the bus she needs to get a bus into town then a bus back out again. Because of time tables she has to leave the house at 7:05 to get there at 8:45 (she needs to be their by 9:00)

More than an hour longer each way that is two hours added on to her working day effecitivey.

I think she well be going by scooter in the furture.

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Speed camera policy Kills

£1.30 for 2 miles is cheap by comparison to where we live.
Just recently the old lady had to catch a bus and it cost her £5 to do a 4 mile journey, It also took her a grand total of 1½ hours (including waiting times) for that journey to complete.
By car the journey takes no more than 10 minutes, and I can halve that on a bike with ease.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Fares are excessive. Buses and trains (and stations and shelters) usually shabby, dirty and dilapidated.

Timetables not in tune to working hours and no integration nor co-ordination.

Compare with Switzerland, France, Germany, and even Italy - where trains, buses and trams and even steamers on lakes are all integrated and you can get from A to B in relative comfort and budget. You can even take the bike along too! Then they wonder why we prefer our cars. At least we get there in comfort and at same or even less cost - and that even includes parking. Especially when you have lots of kids too.

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I'm certinaly not suprised by the response, I didn't think I'd be the only one who expierences the awful public transport we have to endure. I know its easy to say and its up to you whether you believe me, but I am prepared to use public transport if its convienent, realative quick, and affordable. But it so often isn't. The only time it makes sense is going to London - its cheap(if booked in advance), fairly frequent and probably not that much more unreliable then the M6/M1. But virtually every other journey is just a nighmare and I'll only attempt it if theres no other choice, which is usually only if I'm picking a vehicle up for work or going out on the beer.

Can confirm Moggies view - business trip to Hamburg, to a customer site that is several miles out of town and on the wrong side of the river. My first time there, so I was following my associates, and it was astounding:

Leave Hotel, walk across road and plaza to railway station, onto platform, onto waiting train - few minutes later the train leaves, we do 3 or 4 stops then get off, up the stairs and onto waiting bus, wait 1 minute and bus leaves and goes directly to ferry terminal, off bus and onto ferry. Then we have a massive wait of 5 minutes before the ferry leaves, crosses the river and drops us just outside the (riverside) gate of the customer site.

What do we notice about this experience?

1) The services all joined up perfectly - the minimal waiting was to allow other services to also join, for example the wait for the ferry was to allow additional busses to drop off. The were even two ferries even though it was only a 10 minute crossing

2) Didn't waste any time buying tickets! No we were not fare dodging, and all journeys were fully paid for, but didn't need to reach into pocket once. A travel card was included in the hotel stay that covered all public transport in Hamburg the following morning. We could have been asked for the ticket (actually hotel receipt) at any point, but we were not.

Compaired to my experiences of staying in London - our best city for public transport the contrast was amazing. In London nothing joins up, and you are continuously having to find money or get your ticket out. Last time I tried it, it took me 2 hours to get from Kings Cross to Monument, not because of exceptional events, but instead basic service problems, and the infomation available was crap. As for fares...

Can I have a 1 week travel card please?

Certainly Sir, can I see your Photocard please?

WHAT???? I live in the Midlands, and come to London once in a blue moon, all I want is a 1 week travel card to allow me to use tube, train and bus for a week while I am on a course.

Sorry, no London Transport Photocard, no Pass. But you can have a Travel Carnet instead.

Whats that then?

Well you get a set of 10 one-way tickets that you can use as you want. Not as flexible as the travel card, but it is all we can give you. Or you can buy a one-day travel card every day.

OK, give me this Carnet thing then, you take plastic don't you?

Certainly Sir, ahh, but not that one, have you got another way of paying....

The only practical public transport in the UK is the radial train networks into and out of major cities - plus the tube in London. Most other journeys do not have clear cut central destinations and thus cannot be amenable or economic for mass public transport. Travel patterns are so varied that private transport is the only way to cope.

I use the train to get into London but that is about it for me.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Hi all,

I would like to share my experiences of coming down to the London area from Scotland to work and of course using the London public transport. I would like to say that I am not pointing the finger saying it is London's fault that the transport system is crap or any personal stuff, please understand that before replying and stating that I am pointing the finger or being personal.

In comparison to Scotland and probably much of England's less populated areas the London public transport network is a nightmare. I don't think I can ever recall any train being late back in Scotland-maybe once. In saying that the routes in Scotland are relatively simple and not many of them cross over others etc meaning bad knock on effects of one delay and constant changeovers to get to your destination, the only problems I remember is when the trains all merge at Glasgow Central.

Using the London public transport for the first time is-to put it mildly-a firm challenge of your mind, body and soul all at once. I think when it does work it is quite efficient and does get you to your destination quite quickly although more often than not (about 1/2 the time) there is some sort of delay and i'm not surprised. It must be a logistical nightmare to try and integrate every single timetable without a delay. You only need to look at the amount of trains, the size of the timetable noticeboards and the amount of physical railway lines to understand this.

More often than not I seem to get off one train only to find I have about 30 seconds to catch my connecting train, this happens about 2/3's of the time. I also find the sheer amount of people and the information overkill one of the worst aspects of the London transport system. I don't think I have ever travelled confident in the knowledge that the travel logistics are 100% true.

Generally the staff are quite helpful but it would help if they employed staff who spoke clear and plain English.

Travel options and tickets are an absolute nightmare. The last trip I made was to Stansted airport. I had to run for the train as it was sitting in the station, I therefore had to buy a ticket on the train and guess what I couldn't buy an open return from my station to Stansted and had to buy a single to London then buy a return ticket at London, the cost of which had the first ticket price deducted from it. I was assured by the guard on the train that I would have no problem doing this-only after wrangling and almost threatening a ticket operator who could barely speak English and was mumbling things under his breath saying he couldn't do it until I said "could you fetch me the manager" did he suddenly give me tickets, which then turned out to void and wouldn't be accepted on the return journey evn though they worked through the Underground barriers.


I nearly turned round and went back to Scotland-Permanently


Regards


Andrew


P.S. replies on a postcard

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It's a scam........or possibly a scamola


Homer Simpson

Sorry, still not good enough reasons for Blair and Co to stop penalizing motorists for not using public transport, so lets just sweep all that under the carpet shall we.

Although as someone pointed out on here before our European counterparts can donate greater tax revenue to public transport since not having to fund an NHS frees up a lot of cash no doubt.

What they should have said is "Sorry, no photocard, no pass. But you can get a free photocard at the following nearby locations." Sounds like you got a complete numpty who didn't know what they were talking about - especially if they really did sell you a pack of carnets as an alternative to daily travelcards, because unless you specifically mentioned that all your travelling would be within zone 1, then carnets are absolutely the last thing you'd want to be buying instead of a travelcard...

It was all Zone 1: Kings Cross to Monument initially and then hotel to Monument, but I got so p:censored:d off with it that after day 1 that I walked the 2 miles from hotel to training centre and back again. Couldn't cope with unknown delays for the tube (might be on the platform or you might wait 25 minutes), and then if you could fit at all, you had to try and squeeze into worse conditions than is allowed for transporting animals with nothing but sweaty armpits to stick your nose into. Never mind having to keep a very close eye out to avoid pickpockets.

There are no suicide bombers in my car. Perhaps a little insensitive of me in these times, but I'm not sure I care that much. I'm told what and evil planet/child/fluffy bunny killer I am by running a gas guzzling 1.4 litre shopping cart, so the pro train/bus lobby can stuff their slow.smelly, subsidised and still expensive and it would seem dangerous modes of transport where every they please, I'll take the car.

Notice what T2000 haven't said about going by train or bus in the last month. The silence has been deafening....

Out of interest, Enterpise rent a car are doing a weekend deal at the moment where you get the car friday - monday for 37 quid and can do 450 miles in it.

Assuming it's a 1.2 corsa which it usually is, that many miles will probably cost you another 30 quid or so, so for 70 quid you can take 4 people (5 if they're small) for a weekend away, wheras it would be more like 0 quid each on the train and a much greater pain in the arse to boot.

Oh and they also offer to pick you up and take you to the rental place, and drop you off at home at the end of the rental for free!

I don't work for them or anything, just pointing out that going by car is still cheaper even if you do not own one!

Personally, I don't see UK transport policy as demonising the car driver / forcing everyone onto PT.

Policy is about encouraging people to use alternatives where possible. No politician or planner (which includes me as a planner) is ever as stupid to think that most journeys can be undertaken easily be PT - they can't. So what we need to do is encourage its use where it is feasible; e.g. National Express run services between London and Bristol every hour for £1-£7 (taking 2hrs 20mins) and they're only late when a traffic jam causes it. Yet these services are often only 50% full, but take you from city centre to city centre very cheaply with no parking costs. Also, by encouraging people to walk or cycle journeys under a mile would reduce congestion in urban areas massively.

As a transport planner following government guidelines, the car will not be demonised - it is an important part of society. Much of the UK's problem could be solved if people walked when they could / took PT when it is the cheaper option (try getting from Bristol to London for less than £1 costs all in!). Even national road pricing, as currently planned, would leave you better off if you enjoy using your car, for example, for a drive on a Sunday afternoon to a pub lunch in the countryside - no-one's going to stop anyone doing those enjoyable drives.

What we want to reduce is the 'school run' effect (by improving the walking and cycling environment) and encourage improved mass transit for those often travelling on busy radial routes into city centres. Sort those two things out and we're well on the way.

No sensible planner is trying to oust the car from society, I can promise that.

This is the whole problem that city planners have. Most people don't want to travel into the city centre, especially at "school run" times (which would also include people travelling to work)

I would suspect that the majority of commutes within a town or city are orbital, or otherwised not served by the cuttent hub+spoke approach to bus route planning. To use PT for commuting, these people would have to get one bus into the city centre and one bus out.

For commutes between separate towns, this approach is reasonable, bus into town, high speed link to next town and bus back out of town, there isn't any other way to do it and the road trip isn't that much quicker.

But for travelling within the same town the bus in and bus out approach makes commutes often 2 or 3 times as long as just driving, how ironic that the encouragement for people to live near to where they work may actually increase dependency on the car!

Then there are the inherent problems that UK transport has, the fact that arrival and departure times do not mesh nicely and the fact that there are not busses when you need them.

Aylesbury council have had a go, there is a bus from the town centre to the intustrial park where my GF works that will get you there just before 9, and another one that picks you up juat after 5:00. These are the only two busses in the day and she finishes work at 5:30, except for when something is broken and she has to work overtime. Or something breaks when she is on call that evening and she has to go in and fix it.

The last bus home problem doesn't stop with this silly setup either. If you go into London, as it gets past 11 you'll need to keep an eye on your watch and possibly stop what you were doing sooner than you'd like because the tube will shut down and leave you stranded for the night.

The road pricing scheme will do nothing to stop rush hour, no-one wants to drive in rush hour. Put working alternatives in place and (some) people will use them.

What about the other kind?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein