Safe Speed Forums

I have just received a letter from a debt recovery agency that I thought was a scam. However, they now tell me it is related to a £60 fine imposed on me by a court in Hertfordshire in October 2002. Now, I know a lot of people say this but I really know absolutely nothing about this. In fact we moved from Hertfordshire in July 2001 so, even if I had been caught, the court hearing took it's time! The letter chasing the "debt" was also addressed to a house we sold 18 months ago!

The debt collection agency are attempting to find out details of the date of the "offence", the reistration number of the car involved and the location but I am now pretty concerned, not least because I appear to be accused of deliberate non-payment of a fine I didn't know existed.

My questions are; where can I find out how long after being allegedly caught can a court hearing be held? What is the accused supposed to do if, after years of blissful ignorance, he suddenly gets a debt collection letter - addressed to the wrong house?

It seems pretty clear that, even if I have offended, the authorities have done a pretty awful job telling me about it. Can anyone tell me where I can go to check my legal position?

For the best free legal advice on the net visit: http://www.pepipoo.com (especially the forums).

It's possible to apply to the court, make a declaration and have the conviction set aside. There's then the risk that a new prosecution may start.

Since this one is nearly spent (Oct 2005), it may be in your interests to leave it alone. Go carefully, slowly even, and make sure you're acting in your own best interests.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thanks for that.

When you say this is almost spent, does that suggest there is a three year limit? Is that from the date of the court hearing and judgement, or the date of the alleged offence (which, at the moment, I don't know)?

Sorry, yes. It's 3 points for 3 years from date of conviction. I guess it's probably spent already.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I am truly stunned at the advice you have just given Paul

Regardless of whether the conviction is 'spent' or not, it will remain on the OP's driving record held at DVLA for the rest of his natural life and will be brought up should he ever find himself in court for any future offence that he may (or may not) have committed.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Actually, under the rehabilitation of offenders Act, doesn't it have to be completely disregarded after 5 years? Which is why Insurance Companies aren't allowed to continue loading after that time has elapsed.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

If it was disregarded after 5 years, then why does it still show on any printout that a magistrate may happen to be looking at when you are up in front of them?
I don't care what anybody says, when a magistrate looks at your driving history before sentencing then they will not be able to 'ignore' it when passing a sentence.

Even if it was ignored under the Rehabilitaion Of Offenders Act, there is no way I would leave a conviction against my name for something I didn't do.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Err, excuse me!

I told him to be careful to ensure he was acting in his own best interests.

I have a feeling that if there's a new hearing more than three years after the original offence that the points can be ordered to run from the date of the new hearing. Now, I'm not sure where I remember this from, and I'm not sure if it would apply or could apply, but caution is definitely indicated.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It looks to me that this is typical of what happened to my friend. If this was a fixed penalty fine for speeding. As you moved house they probably passed sentence without you being at court (because you wouldn't have answered their letters).

The difference between you and my friend was that he received the NIP which he sent off, but because he moved he did not hear any more about it (because the letters where still going to his old address). After about a year the next thing he knows is this big bruiser was on his door step from dept recovery agency (they tracked him down from his car registration) who forced his way into his house and started taking note of his household items.

The collector then told him that if he didn't pay £270 in three days they would be back with a locksmith and would take his possessions to cover the amount. (he even had to ring the dept collector and deliver the money in cash to where ever he was at the time).

They charged £70 for fee's plus £100 pound for each visit (and you don't know how many times they visited because they don't leave a card) and it’s your word against theirs as to how many times they visited.

I’m not sure about the time lapse but I don’t think it matters. They put it in the hands of the dept collectors because they are the people who track you down, they collect the fine and charge for thier expences.

I don’t want to make you worry too much but from what I’ve seen these dept collection people are nasty work, so I would try to seek advice and I wouldn’t waste any time.

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Useless laws weaken necessary laws.

You do not have to let Debt collectors into your home!!! If they have gained entry 'peacably' on a previous occasion, through an open door/window or whether you let them in, they are in walking possession and will be able to break in. If however they turn up at the door and they haven't gained access peacably on previous occasions (in other words you haven't let them in) and attempt to put their foot in the door to prevent you from closing it and you ask them to leave, they are breaking the law, if they push past you this is assault and trespass.

If they're from Drakes they will attempt to indicate that they have a court order allowing them entry, this is bull. Such orders are rarely given and generally only to inland revenue claims. They will lie, cheat and break the law to get in and I can only say that they are similiar to that very unpleasant stuff you sometimes tread in on the pavement.

If you are expecting a call from these scumbags, i suggest that you have a tape recorder nearby and tape the 'conversation', then call the Police. I understand that they are allowed two further tries before passing the order back to the court. Keep telling them that you are not allowing them access and that they have no powers of entry. If you have a tape recording of the said 'conversation' or better still CCTV and sound and they do push past you or attempt to intimidate you, then not only file criminal charges against them but sue the backsides off of them.

The best solution is to get it sorted prior to the cumbags attending your home. You should be able to apply to the court and make a statutory declaration which sets the conviction aside. You may however be out of time to so this but the CAB should be able to tell you this. Either way the court administrators will proberley have their thumbs up their backsides and not know what to do and pass you round and round in circles until you end up at square one. Speak to the convicting courts clerk and again, if you are able, record the conversation do so etc.

This is so wrong, why can't they concentrate on nicking real criminals, even if you were "guilty" of speeding, surely its a waste of time/money pursuing you when there are loads more unsolved crimes that do effect society, makes me cross.

If it was me, fight it, clear your name mate, good luck with however you do it.

Oh, and to pick up a point made about how long points last........

speeding points are counted towards totting up for 3 years from the offence date

Under the rehabilitation of offenders act, points for speeding are regarded as "spent" after 4 years from the offence and no longer have to be delcared at job interviews and can be removed from driving licence.

Insurance companies are the only ones who want this information for 5 years, although legally I don't know why they can demand this information for 5 years not 4?

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www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

I agree withyou Davey Boy, why are insurance companies allowed to persecute someone two years after the conviction is spent? I haven't a clue. It get's my goat too.

Our local paper publishes the court appearances from the previous week and the convictions and fines just don't add up.

Someone threatens another with a knife and with mitigating circumstances (they had a poor upbringing guv) they get community service, £300 fine and £60 costs.

Someone who has he audacity to challenge a speeding fine can get 3-5 points, 3 years conviction, £300 (average) fine £60 costs. Their insurance goes through the roof for 5 years and mitigating circumstances are that if you are on benefits (never worked out how someone who doesn't work can drive anyway) you will proberley pay a £60 fine. Good aint it?

PS, when are yer going to signup Davey boy, we could do with yer in the clubhouse mate.

I fully intend to join when I've got through this extremely tight month financially. Getting a fixed penalty and paying car tax in the same month sucks!

As for the insurance. I can understand them requiring the information for 4 years as this is when they can legally be removed from the driving licence, but 5 years does take the piss. Thinking about it, it takes the piss even more so as most only require an accident history of 3 years.

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www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

Good effort,

I decided to fill my car up yesterday cos I fancied a trip to the south Coast, £67.00 85% of which goes into Gordon (your money is really my money) Brown's overseas benevolent fund.

When are we going to have the mass protests again and screw these filth once and for all.

yeah I agree, we should all stop paying tax...
just remember, if they don't take it from fuel, they will need to take it from somewhere else and that somewhere may be even more painful for you.
Either that or they can make everything pay-as-you-go. All roads become toll-roads, any hospital/doctor visit you pay upfront or no treatment - I'm sure you've got several thousand pounds lying around in case you need an operation. Lost your job? Too bad, find another one quick or starve.
Where exactly do people think this money comes from?

I know where the money comes from, it's where it goes to that worries me.
I've got nothing against paying tax in principle, but when I see things like hundreds of thousands of pointless pencil pushers recruited since NL came to power, doctors spending three-quarters of their time filling in forms, the NHS spending £70,000 on a rock......
The more they take, the more they spend - and the less benefit you and I see at the end of the day.

Cheers
Peter

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Yeah, but when the international price of oil rises the goverment gets a big windfall due to VAT on fuel and the revenues from North Sea oil. The least they should do is help us all by buffering the pump price rises to the extent of their windfall. I believe this is presently worth something in the order of 10p per litre.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The French have done exactly that and cut the tax on fuel to compensate for the increases. Dominic Villespin (who is France's unelected Prime Minister) even cut short his holiday to do exactly that.

I've no problem paying a fair share of tax if I see results, we aren't seeing the results and as such and peed off about it, taxes are to go up again because of a 27billion defecit all the while even with extra fuel receipts our illustrious chancellor is still borrowing, changing the goalposts of his golden rules and chucking OUR money around like water, when Police Officers are required, we can't afford them. but then that's another story isn't it.

I'm a bit shocked that some people on here are happy to accept the high fuel taxes because "it could go on something else that would hit us harder!" Sorry, but this is bull. Cutting benefits to lazy sods who can't be arsed to get a job, and stop sending so much money overseas, especially to Europe would easily fund a reduction in fuel duty.

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www.clubrwd.com - For all things rear wheel drive

well that might save a few million a year and cut petrol prices by about .1p/l.


you might have more luck there but you'll find that taking such a narrow-minded view of the world isn't exactly in the longterm best interests of the country - something that your ancestors may have discovered after WWI.