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Pete317
 Post subject: Fuel prices
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:58 
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Hi all

Just found this on the BBC website.

Of particular concern is the following quote from a Treasury spokesman:

Quote:
More than half the fuel used in the UK bears little or no fuel duty at all... so seeking to address the problem of high oil prices through road fuel duty alone would do nothing for the majority of consumers


What is this guy on? :? :? :?

Cheers
Peter

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Dixie
 Post subject: Re: Fuel prices
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 13:16 
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Pete317 wrote:
Hi all

Just found this on the BBC website.

Of particular concern is the following quote from a Treasury spokesman:

Quote:
More than half the fuel used in the UK bears little or no fuel duty at all... so seeking to address the problem of high oil prices through road fuel duty alone would do nothing for the majority of consumers


What is this guy on? :? :? :?

Cheers
Peter


I'd say we’re are all due some very large refunds. :yesyes:

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pogo
 Post subject: Re: Fuel prices
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 16:38 
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Pete317 wrote:
Hi all

Just found this on the BBC website.

Of particular concern is the following quote from a Treasury spokesman:

Quote:
More than half the fuel used in the UK bears little or no fuel duty at all... so seeking to address the problem of high oil prices through road fuel duty alone would do nothing for the majority of consumers


What is this guy on? :? :? :?

Cheers
Peter

I suppose that technically and extremely pedantically, "fuel" doesn't... Heating oil, aviation fuel, red diesel, heavy oil for power generation etc isn't taxed as road fuel though it is "fuel"...

Maybe he's suggesting that we all run diesel cars on central-heating oil? :twisted:

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Ziltro
 Post subject: Re: Fuel prices
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 16:46 
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pogo wrote:
Maybe he's suggesting that we all run diesel cars on central-heating oil? :twisted:


Well I got through about 200 litres of vegetable oil in my old car...

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pogo
 Post subject: Re: Fuel prices
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 16:52 
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Ziltro wrote:
pogo wrote:
Maybe he's suggesting that we all run diesel cars on central-heating oil? :twisted:


Well I got through about 200 litres of vegetable oil in my old car...

I hope that you're being a good citizen and paying the road fuel duty to your local Customs & Excise office... :twisted:

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Ziltro
 Post subject: Re: Fuel prices
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 17:49 
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pogo wrote:
I hope that you're being a good citizen and paying the road fuel duty to your local Customs & Excise office... :twisted:


Yep! It wasn't too hard to register and I'm sure they have been loving my cheques each month which are usually for somewhere between £2.71 and £10.00 :lol:

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Pete317
 Post subject: Re: Fuel prices
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 18:18 
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Ziltro wrote:
Yep! It wasn't too hard to register and I'm sure they have been loving my cheques each month which are usually for somewhere between £2.71 and £10.00 :lol:


If you don't mind me asking, how much does it cost to do this?

I assume if you get stopped by the police, all you need to do is provide proof that you've paid duty?

Cheers
Peter

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adam.L
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 18:45 
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Last week on 5Live that scottish lady that does the finance worked out the total tax on a litre of petrol @86pence per litre. If you include all the tax generated by that litre of petrol (duty, VAT and energy taxWETF that is) it adds up to 70 pence per litre. So Mr Shit For Brains Treasury Spokesman, I'd say addressing duty, no it's bloody TAX, would have a significant effect on consumers.

If Gordon Brown were to spend 10 minutes in a darkened room with me and a rusty screw driver, the price of fuel would fall to around 30 pence a litre within the hour :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Gixxer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 18:58 
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adam.L wrote:
If Gordon Brown were to spend 10 minutes in a darkened room with me and a rusty screw driver, the price of fuel would fall to around 30 pence a litre within the hour :evil: :evil: :evil:

If it takes you 10 minutes in a darkened room to bring someone around to your way of thinking, you need to change your sales patter :wink:

May I also suggest that you exchange the rusty screwdriver for a petrol driven disc cutter.

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Ziltro
 Post subject: Re: Fuel prices
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 19:02 
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Pete317 wrote:
Ziltro wrote:
Yep! It wasn't too hard to register and I'm sure they have been loving my cheques each month which are usually for somewhere between £2.71 and £10.00 :lol:


If you don't mind me asking, how much does it cost to do this?


For bio-diesel it is currently 27.1p per litre. Plus the envelope/stamp to send it in each month. There's no charge for being a fuel producer.
The bio-diesel tax rate is currently fixed at "20 pence per litre below the rate for ultra low sulphur diesel (ULSD)".

This page has the tax rates for fuels. The Pre-budget 2004 one seems to contain the current rates, but they don't make it obvious.

Pete317 wrote:
I assume if you get stopped by the police, all you need to do is provide proof that you've paid duty?


I am not certain where the responsibility lies. I keep a copy of the "you are now a registered fuel producer" letter that HMCE sent me in the car just in case. I also keep records of how much fuel I have "converted", which is a legal requirement for being a fuel producer.

But I could sell or give away this fuel to anyone I wanted. How do you know your local garage has paid road duty on their fuel? I've never asked them and I don't even get a receipt from the pay-at-pump machine. What if the driver never fills the car up with fuel? I think it is the case that any DVLA registered vehicle must only be filled up with duty-paid fuel (at any time even is only used on your own land) which would indicate that it is the responsibility of whoever actually puts the fuel in there. Unless you fill up abroad, then you can have as much as you like in the vehicle's main fuel tank, duty-free. There is no tax on bio-diesel in Germany or Australia. :roll:

(the way I convert the vegetable oil in to a road fuel is by saying "this is now a road fuel".)

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Gizmo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:22 
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Quote:
Fuel protests threatened


Protestors have threatened to begin blockading refineries next week, if the tax on fuel is not reduced.
Andrew Spence, a spokesperson for the Fuel Lobby, warned that the blockades would begin at 6am on September 14, unless price cuts were made.
Fuel protests in September 2000 brought the UK to a virtual standstill and resulted in shortages and panic buying. The weeklong protest was believed to have cost British business in the region of £1 billion.
The average price of unleaded petrol in the UK rose to 94.6 pence per litre over the weekend and has continued to climb this week, following the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina in the US.
The government receives around three quarters of the cost of petrol in duty and tax.
Commenting on the protest threats, a spokesperson for the Treasury said that road fuel duty rates on the main types of petrol and diesel were now lower than they were in 1999. The spokesperson said: “We believe the biggest priority in terms of reducing fuel costs must be working with the American government to restore production levels affected by the Hurricane Katrina disaster, as well as maintaining pressure on OPEC to set their oil production at levels consistent with more stable and sustainable prices.
“More than half the fuel used in the UK bears little or no fuel duty at all, including the red diesel used by farmers like Mr Spence and that fuel used in industrial production, heating of homes and workplaces and rail and bus transport, so seeking to address the problem of high oil prices through road fuel duty alone would do nothing for the majority of consumers.”



Hold on......so there is not duty on fuel used by bus or train operators...thats news to me. Another back door subsidy.

Sounds to me like they are in a panic. The stuff they are quoting is just getting dafter by the day. A sign that they are very worried

It has already hit the T2000 radar....they have come up with the usual cobblers.. :lol:

BTW there are 30 million drivers in the UK....I would say that that is the majority of customers.

If C02 emmissions were such a big issue why is there no duty on ALL oil based fuel consumpttion.

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Dowlais
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 16:49 
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Here are a few extracts from a story that I spotted this the
Daily Telegraph this morning. The full article is at
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.j ... nfuel8.xml

Quote:

Customs casts net wider for fuel smugglers - By Roland Gribben (Filed:
08/09/2005)

Customs officials are attempting to head off an expansion into shipping and
aviation of the fuel black market after making substantial inroads on red
diesel and petrol fraud, estimated at more than £2 billion a year. ...

HM Customs has been fighting a lengthy battle to bring diesel frauds under
control. ... Gangs ... have cashed in on fuel available to farmers at
just 5p a litre ...

Customs officers have been increasing efforts to stamp out the trade and
although there have been a number of successful prosecutions inspectors have
been unable to halt the flow. Last week two traders, Kevin O'Hare and
Brendan Morgan, both of Newry, Co Down, were jailed at Liverpool Crown Court
after being found guilty of illegal fuel trading in north west England and
Yorkshire and evading duty of more than £382,000. ...

Customs has been charged by the Chancellor to limit the market share in
illicit fuel to no more than 2 per cent in England, Wales and Scotland. It
is more difficult to set targets in Northern Ireland because of cross-border
smuggling.


TWO BILLION POUNDS A YEAR !!!

And at present MORE THAN TWO PERCENT OF MARKET SHARE !!!

This is all part-and-parcel of the Law Enforcement problem, along with
Dangerous Drivers, Uninsured Drivers et al.

I'd have no objection to Speed Cameras if they were being properly used
as part of a proper law-enforcement strategy. Right now they are being
used instead of a proper policy.

What you measure is what you get.
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Gizmo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 16:54 
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Wait till the rise in ethanol based fuels like the cars Ford have been starting to introduce into the country in limited numbers.

You can "brew" the fuel yourself.

I used to run a dragster on methanol. I bought the stuff at truck air-brake de-icer. No duty payable at all.......... :wink:

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adam.L
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 18:26 
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Gixxer wrote:
adam.L wrote:
If Gordon Brown were to spend 10 minutes in a darkened room with me and a rusty screw driver, the price of fuel would fall to around 30 pence a litre within the hour :evil: :evil: :evil:

If it takes you 10 minutes in a darkened room to bring someone around to your way of thinking, you need to change your sales patter :wink:

May I also suggest that you exchange the rusty screwdriver for a petrol driven disc cutter.



He's probably bigger than me, which is why I've allowed 10 minutes for "re-education" and I can't afford the gas for the disc cutter which is why the rusty screw driver is the favoured training tool.
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Dratsabasti
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 21:09 
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I fail to see the point in blockading the oil terminals, they don't take 80% of the price in tax.
In fact the oil companies have to work bloody hard to get the oil from under the ground to us, the consumer.

What they should be doing is persuading the haulage companies to, just for once in their lives, work together on just One project.

That project is:

DELIVER ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO ANY GOVERNMENT BUILDING.

In particular, paper, staples, red tape, and to the Gas Works, sorry, Parliament, BOOZE.
They wouldn't last a week, they'd also quickly get the message


Oh, and film to the scamera pratnerships.

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JT
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 09:02 
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Here we are, this might be the solution to rocketing petrol prices...

click here

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Capri2.8i
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 17:53 
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I was taken in by that for a second, though I did wonder how the hell they were able to send petrol through the post!
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Safety Engineer
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 05:05 
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I'll take the antimatter conversion kit please :D

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Pete317
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:29 
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Capri2.8i wrote:
I was taken in by that for a second, though I did wonder how the hell they were able to send petrol through the post!


They don't. They email it to you. :lol:

Cheers
Peter

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adam.L
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:46 
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Is there any reason why we could not have the amount of tax printed on the reciept? That could apply to all products with tax on them.

I'm taxing my car tomorrow and when I do I always right a little love note to my favorite chancellor on the back of the cheque. This year it will read, "dear mr Brown, please spend my hard earned wisely, as each time I fill my car with fuel I get the urge to kick you in the bollocks." It makes me feel better.
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