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Ernest Marsh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 01:15 
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Mad Moggie
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 01:33 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
. . .Image


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Roger
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 04:17 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Roger wrote:
... and at a distance of almost 600 yards, as someone close to me got gunned at, the gun wobble would have to be.. how much? Let's assume the gunner was aiming for the plate but slipped almost half a car width - 3'.

3' in 600 - 1/60th of a radian - 1°. For a gun only just over a foot long - less from lens to pistol grip - that represents a lens movement with respect to the grip of... substantially less than a quarter of an inch - less than an 1/8th of an inch movement of each hand if they go in antiphase. Add to that the possible need to be panning if the car is not going straight towards the policeman.... I'd certainly be wary of confirming capability to achieve this degree of accuracy - and I was once a marksman with a .303".

I believe there is no alternative to substantial refunds and compensation now this doubt has been brought into the public domain.


I think you're being generous there. Say it's being used at 500m. If we slip up the bonnet, that's maybe a deflection of 1/3rd metre at the target. We can infer the movement at the device by similar tiangles. The big trangle is 1500:1. The small triangle at the gun must also be 1500:1 - the gun is about 200mm long so the 'nose deflection' only needs to be 0.13333mm

I defy anyone to squeeze a trigger without inducing a movement of 0.2mm!

It's dead, but it won't lie down.


I hadn't considered vertical slip. In retrospect, particularly with the modern sloping bonnets (qv opposite of old granadas), this is a far more likely scenario. But, would there be adequate reflection back from such a grazing angle?
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blackdouglas
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 08:48 
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:o

Soon they won't just have "slip" to worry about either. There's another effect that means you can get a reading from the WRONG vehicle.

It hasn't been published yet, but we're working on it - and this effect is MORE likely to happen in the UK than in the US. :lol:
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Ernest Marsh
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 08:51 
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Ernest wrote:
The slide could just as easily be vertically up the steeply sloped front of a vehicle such as the VW Sharan, or the Ford Galaxy!

There are any number of vehicles with steeply sloping bonnets - the Peugeot 307, Citroen C3, as well as a lot of white vans! With trim and wipers etc. I would expect some return from the laser, especially where detection was from above - say on a bridge. :idea:

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blackdouglas
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 09:33 
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JJ wrote:
Well it's 22:22 and it looks quite quiet on here, I haven't seen the program but I expected far more triumphalism than this.
Wasn't it as spectacular as you all expected?


:lol:
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keycare
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:34 
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conspicuous by his absence... :roll:

no sign of JJ for the last few pages of the debate...better dry clean that interview suit and brush up on that book...interview techniques for bullshitters. :lol: :P
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Cooperman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:52 
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I have a technical recruitment business and I can tell you that I would not even submit the CV of someone whose last job was "Speed Camera Pratnership Project Manager" to any client of mine. Too many of their employees have ben caught up in this stupid cash collection already.
The Pratnership employees are the nearest thing to 'non-people.
"And, Mr. Callaghan, your new company vehicle will be a P45GT. Look after it, you'll be needing it for a long time"
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civil engineer
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:55 
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Managing an SCP is hardly a technical pursuit i would imagine its largely administrative!

Going back to the bonnets surely its the flatter (more horz) ones that have more potential for un noticed slippage.
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Cooperman
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:29 
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civil engineer wrote:
Managing an SCP is hardly a technical pursuit i would imagine its largely administrative!


Callaghan said he's an engineer which, as you so rightly imply, infers a degree in engineering. Those are the sort of candidates my colleagues and I place in employment. However, if the CV of a Cash-Camera Pratnership employee ever came to my company it would be shredded before one could say "No Way, Pedro".
You are not alone in deploring the use of the term engineer by fitters, machine tool setters and operators and mechanics. It's like a solicitor's clerk calling himself a barrister or a accounts clerk calling himself an accountant. In some countries this would be classewd as 'passing off', but here it's allowed. In the USA a train driver calls himself an engineer, but that's because he is in control of the engine.
Callaghan an engineer? A 'Scammereer' maybe.
By the way, Civil Engineer, are you looking for a job? If you are, email me privately.
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anton
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 16:48 
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Well I went to court with a truck driver today. After a long battle with the cps over a video and discussion about the missing document we were praised for our defence and the cps were rebuked and warned to meet timescales. Just for fun we gave the cps a parting gift... acopy of mondays insideout to watch!
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Gatsobait
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 17:24 
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anton wrote:
Just for fun we gave the cps a parting gift... acopy of mondays insideout to watch!

:rotfl: Nice touch.

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quattro
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 19:12 
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The Pratnership employees are the nearest thing to 'non-people.


I would never employ one. The only two I have met, both Wiltshire, just seem very bitter about being civiliansed by their force and seemed also to get a deranged pleasure from lasering people. Quite scary.

They both seemed to be suffering from delsuions of adequacy.

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camera operator
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 00:34 
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lets


Last edited by camera operator on Sat Sep 23, 2006 18:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Ernest Marsh
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 07:37 
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http://pepipoo.com/Case_Files/documents/CF11_PVA.rm

You need to have Real Player.

The figures and ranges on the tape are clearly readable - not sure what they are reading though!!

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anton
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 08:04 
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Quote:
cannot say i have been buffeted on a bridge


no! it never happens.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4164613.stm

I dont believe you!
As a gpo engineer I used to sit in the van at lunch time. There were loads of occasions that the van violenltly buffeted and the coffee would spill. on one occasion I thought the van was going over. They chain caravans down to stop them blowing over. parked over a motorway bridge must be similar to parking at a cliff top!
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johno1066
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 08:51 
You would also surely get the same affect being at the side of the road, especially if an HGV sorry LGV comes past you. As such one would presume that there are more cases of 'wobbling' or buffeting than we are led to beleive.
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Cooperman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:07 
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On BBC Look East News last night there was a news item about a well-qualified electronics engineer who is going to court over an apparently erroneous speed reading which resulted in an NiP for, I thik, 38 in a 30.He maintains he was definately not driving at over 30 and is prepared to question the design, use and accuracy of the 'dodgyscope'.
The item seemed very sympathetic to the accused rather than the Old Bill, whose spokesman just trotted out the usual 'spin' about it being an approved speed camera, no previous problems and, of course, 'speed kills'.
Maybe you could pick up on that, Paul.
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millsee
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 16:03 
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camera operator wrote:

to Q1 i do not have a clue
Q2. cannot say i have been buffeted on a bridge, although parallel to the road yes, and as it always seems as i pour a cup of tea, and there's me thinking i could use this shirt for a week


This is an absolutely astonishing response.

You have seen evidence that miniscule movement in the speed gun at the time of measurement can cause the huge differences in readings. You have seen that this can often mean the loss of livlihood for honest, law-abiding people.

You dismiss all this. Why?
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SafeSpeed
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 16:34 
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Cooperman wrote:
On BBC Look East News last night there was a news item about a well-qualified electronics engineer who is going to court over an apparently erroneous speed reading which resulted in an NiP for, I thik, 38 in a 30.He maintains he was definately not driving at over 30 and is prepared to question the design, use and accuracy of the 'dodgyscope'.
The item seemed very sympathetic to the accused rather than the Old Bill, whose spokesman just trotted out the usual 'spin' about it being an approved speed camera, no previous problems and, of course, 'speed kills'.
Maybe you could pick up on that, Paul.


Thanks. I'm on the road today. I'll try to pick it up tomorrow.

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