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 Post subject: "Idiots"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 15:46 
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20mph victory for speed limit campaign
by Evening Press reporter

A YEAR-LONG parents' campaign to put a life-saving 20mph zone around Easingwold primary school has paid off.

The road changes outside the school, in Thirsk Road, have been given the go-ahead by North Yorkshire County Council and will be put in place during the October half-term holiday.

More than 360 parents and concerned residents signed the Easingwold 20 Zone petition last summer after official figures showed that two out of three vehicles driving past the school were speeding.

The campaign also won the support of Vale of York MP Anne McIntosh.

The county council has monitored traffic driving past the school over the space of a week.

They found that two thirds of all vehicles were exceeding the 30mph speed limit, more than a third were travelling faster than 35mph, and on average, six drivers every day were going faster than 70mph.

After the work has been done there will be two sets of speed cushions in place - that a car can straddle with care - and two sets of full-width speed tables that vehicles will have to slow right down for.

Campaigner Gerard Tubb said: "Thanks to the campaign's success, after the half term holiday any idiots planning to speed past the school will be more likely to damage their suspension than our children.

"It will be annoying at times to negotiate the new humps and bumps in Thirsk Road. But official research shows that traffic calming schemes like the one we have secured reduce average speeds by around 10mph, and reduce the risk of accidents to children by almost 70 per cent."

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 16:06 
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I suppose this is a case of the old you can speed if you want but not outside my kids school or my house etc. As this seems to be the attitude of a lot of motorists who are after all a lot are parents.
Stephen


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 Post subject: Re: "Idiots"
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 16:12 
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millsee wrote:
Is it me?

Nope. :banghead:

Okay, if they've had 2/3 of cars go by over the limit and a few at 70 that sounds scary, but notice that they very carefully did not say what times these speeds were detected. All that's said is that speeds were monitored for a week. The 70mph ones could all have been in the middle of the night, and it wouldn't surprise me if they really were.

Also note that there is no mention of how many dead and seriously injured kids there have been. You can bet your last penny that if there had been just one they'd have at least mentioned it. Since they haven't I think it's reasonable to assume that there haven't been any at all, which suggests that this is at least partially a fear reaction rather than a risk reaction.
Quote:
"It will be annoying at times to negotiate the new humps and bumps in Thirsk Road. But official research shows that traffic calming schemes like the one we have secured reduce average speeds by around 10mph, and reduce the risk of accidents to children by almost 70 per cent."

He's hoping! :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 17:09 
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Contrast with this story.

Quote:

http://www.thisisyork.co.uk/york/news/Y ... OCAL6.html

STEPS are being taken at three York primary schools to stop youngsters walking out between parked cars.
The go-ahead has been given to increase the school safety zones at three York primary schools - Lakeside, Ralph Butterfield and Yearsley Grove.
After consultation with parents, teachers and governors, City of York Council has given the green light to a raft of measures including single, double yellow and zig-zag lines to restrict parking near the schools.
The move comes after parents and other motorists raised concerns that youngsters were having to cross between parked cars when crossing the road at the start and end of the school day.
At Yearsley Grove, in Huntington, head teacher Ann Burn said they were not trying to stop parents from parking near the school, but being pro-active trying to stop youngsters being involved in accidents.
"We are trying to take the initiative here because a lot of our parents have been concerned," said Mrs Burn. "We tell the children and I am always saying in the newsletter for parents to tell their children about the dangers of crossing the road outside school.
"This way, drivers have more chance to see the youngsters and they can stay safe."
The school already has a 20mph speed zone around it, encouraging cars to slow down, and parking restrictions outside the gates.
The latest addition will be a single yellow line opposite the school to stop cars parking up and forcing children to cross between parked cars.
At Lakeside Primary School in Oakdale Road, Rawcliffe, head Ros Latham said increased double yellow lines are necessary to stop parents parking where they shouldn't when dropping off children at school.
"Some of our parents have been concerned about the parking and we need the road clear so that children can feel safe while crossing."
At Ralph Butterfield School in Station Road, Haxby the plan is to reposition existing zig-zag markings after concerns over parking around the pedestrian crossing.
In addition some vehicles were left parked around junction corners and occasionally obstructing drive-ways.
The council's planning and transport east area sub-committee met on Thursday night and councillors gave the go-ahead to plans for the new measures.


Education as to the dangers of crossing in between parked cars and need to wait at the kerb until traffic has passed would be a good idea as well. :wink:

At school drop off times though - doubt anyone even reaches as high a speed as 20 mph. Danger lies in the inconsiderate way those dropping off kids park up to do so. :wink:

As for humps ... :roll:


Quote:
Campaigner Gerard Tubb said: "Thanks to the campaign's success, after the half term holiday any idiots planning to speed past the school will be more likely to damage their suspension than our children.

"It will be annoying at times to negotiate the new humps and bumps in Thirsk Road. But official research shows that traffic calming schemes like the one we have secured reduce average speeds by around 10mph, and reduce the risk of accidents to children by almost 70 per cent."


Sounds like he plans an illegal height of the humps if they do cause such damage. Seem to recall Mad Doc posting a U-turn from Bolton local press on this very issue - the humps were too high and caused more problems than they actually resolved :roll: If they do speed over such high - chances are loss of control of vehicle and worse impact collision :roll:

They also forget about the kids who practise bicycle wheelies on these humps too :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 17:10 
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So why not enforce the speed limit of 30mph first? And put barriers and yellow zig-zag lines outside the school and if necessary a signal-controlled pedestrian crossing.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 17:27 
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In Gear wrote:
Quote:
Campaigner Gerard Tubb said: "Thanks to the campaign's success, after the half term holiday any idiots planning to speed past the school will be more likely to damage their suspension than our children.

Sounds like he plans an illegal height of the humps if they do cause such damage. Seem to recall Mad Doc posting a U-turn from Bolton local press on this very issue - the humps were too high and caused more problems than they actually resolved :roll: If they do speed over such high - chances are loss of control of vehicle and worse impact collision :roll:

They also forget about the kids who practise bicycle wheelies on these humps too :roll:

I missed that bit. Good point about illegal humps etc, but I wonder if it might have another effect. If the humps are expected to cause suspension damage I wonder if more local people will be tempted to get an SUV/4x4 next time they change cars. Side effects and side effects. The folks who want humps tend to hate SUV/4x4s and it'd be sweet irony if they ended up with more about because of them. :twisted:

But more to the point, how much better to teach good road use to children as in the other example In Gear gave. Okay, they're put in double yellows as well, but it sounds like the thinking is that all road users have a role in safety, which is fair enough.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 17:38 
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In Gear wrote:
They also forget about the kids who practise bicycle wheelies on these humps too :roll:


:rotfl: The kids round here don't have bicycles, they have quadbikes, and use the speed bumps to launch ontop of nearby cars.

The response to the BiB trying to stop them "they int got no wher to ride ther quadbikes, wher du yu fink they can go, eh". :censored:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 17:56 
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Quote:
Campaigner Gerard Tubb said: "Thanks to the campaign's success, after the half term holiday any idiots planning to speed past the school will be more likely to damage their suspension than our children.

There are two classes of driver - those too young to have developed common sense, and those with company cars, changed every year or two, who see humps as a challenge, or dont care about the damage it does, because they change it before it becomes a problem.

Humps AND a 20 mph limit is an admission that one or the other isn't working, and drivers are speeding up between humps to make up for (perceived) lost time.
I admit to enjoying exploring humps to see what the best technique is for maximum speed/comfort - since each of my vehicles has had characteristics which make humps more or less effective. :D
My old Chrysler Alpine could bound over humps with impunity if you just dabbed the brakes briefly before the wheel made contact with the hump. The resultant compression of front gear cause the car to lift back up as the wheel rode over, relieving some of the weight!! :roll: With practice 40 mph was not an impossibility! :shock:
I have a back problem which is exacerbated by some humps, and there must be many worse off than me. :(

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 17:57 
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Quote:
They found that two thirds of all vehicles were exceeding the 30mph speed limit, more than a third were travelling faster than 35mph, and on average, six drivers every day were going faster than 70mph.


Right, so the reason for the speed limit cut is because of motorists speeding? :roll:

Yet again its some sort of speed restricting that applies 24/7. And of course drivers are now going to be making sure they navigate the speed cushions/chicanes/whatever they are properly instead of looking out for kids crossing the road.


A simple case of having a policeman there for a few weeks would've had been sufficient.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 18:02 
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madroaduser wrote:
Quote:
They found that two thirds of all vehicles were exceeding the 30mph speed limit, more than a third were travelling faster than 35mph, and on average, six drivers every day were going faster than 70mph.


Right, so the reason for the speed limit cut is because of motorists speeding? :roll:

Yet again its some sort of speed restricting that applies 24/7. And of course drivers are now going to be making sure they navigate the speed cushions/chicanes/whatever they are properly instead of looking out for kids crossing the road.


A simple case of having a policeman there for a few weeks would've had been sufficient.

It worked in Windermere - but a lot of those reported were parents on their way to drop off the kids, and several who failed to ensure their little darlings were belted up!! :oops:
It worked well, because you never new when or where the speed gun would be, and most were exceedingly embarrassed to be seen at the side of the road getting their lecture!!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 18:05 
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Homer wrote:
In Gear wrote:
They also forget about the kids who practise bicycle wheelies on these humps too :roll:


:rotfl: The kids round here don't have bicycles, they have quadbikes, and use the speed bumps to launch ontop of nearby cars.

The response to the BiB trying to stop them "they int got no wher to ride ther quadbikes, wher du yu fink they can go, eh". :censored:


I loathe quad bikes with a vengeance....both Mad Doc and my brother and another relative - a UK cousin :wink: (both GMP) have alerted me to a reader's letter in the Manchester paper complaining of this very thing and complimenting GMP on their recent campaign. Again - the kids find a certain thrill in performing nuisnace wheelies over the humps - scooters , moped , quad bikes, push bikes. Yeah - folly of youth and teenage kids will be teenage kids and seek thrills - etc. But there are some controlled facilities where they can perfect and indulge in safety - wish they'd use them. We chuck beat bobbies and PCSOs at our miscreants - with mixed results. Some take note and others - we sometimes end up going through the ASBO routines....in desperation to be honest. :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 18:24 
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millsee wrote:
A YEAR-LONG parents' campaign to put a life-saving 20mph zone around Easingwold primary school has paid off.

Does the individual who penned this not realise that you can die at 5mph in the right (wrong really) circumstances?

In Gear wrote:
I loathe quad bikes with a vengeance....

I hope you don't tug me purely because you happen to loathe a type of vehicle that I just happen to have chosen to SVA, register, tax, MOT, insure & ride on a public road.
If it were the case that I even got the feeling that I was singled out purely for my choice of transport, we would both be in for a very long day :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 18:30 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Humps AND a 20 mph limit is an admission that one or the other isn't working, and drivers are speeding up between humps to make up for (perceived) lost time.


Not always an admission.

The 20mph limit might actually be a 20mph zone.

A 20mph zone requires traffic-calming in order that the limit be self-enforcing. No repeater signs are needed.

A 20mph limit must have 20mph repeaters, but doesn't need traffic-calming.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 18:31 
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Gixxer wrote:
millsee wrote:
A YEAR-LONG parents' campaign to put a life-saving 20mph zone around Easingwold primary school has paid off.

Does the individual who penned this not realise that you can die at 5mph in the right (wrong really) circumstances?

In Gear wrote:
I loathe quad bikes with a vengeance....

I hope you don't tug me purely because you happen to loathe a type of vehicle that I just happen to have chosen to SVA, register, tax, MOT, insure & ride on a public road.
If it were the case that I even got the feeling that I was singled out purely for my choice of transport, we would both be in for a very long day :wink:

I'm sure you use yours responsibly. Perhaps I should have qualified my comment in that I loathe daft and inconsiderate use of such quad bikes with a vengeance. :wink:

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Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 01:05 
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RichardB wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
Humps AND a 20 mph limit is an admission that one or the other isn't working, and drivers are speeding up between humps to make up for (perceived) lost time.


Not always an admission.

The 20mph limit might actually be a 20mph zone.

A 20mph zone requires traffic-calming in order that the limit be self-enforcing. No repeater signs are needed.

A 20mph limit must have 20mph repeaters, but doesn't need traffic-calming.

If it is to be self enforcing, then why place humps AND a 20 mph zone?
My point is that if HUMPS are the means of enforcement, then cars WILL speed up between them (and over them) whether or not there is a 20 mph zone/limit.
In the meantime, a large proportion of the population is at best inconvenienced, and at worst, caused harm by humps which jar those who suffer bad backs.
In Windermere, we lost a bus service through our estate because humps stretching the full width of the road caused floods of complaints from elderly passengers, and the bus company feared being sued!!
Self enforcing???? Tonight on my way home I was passed by a car doing nearly 40 between humps - in avoiding him, I had too little time to take his number - but I know it did not belong on the estate.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 09:26 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Tonight on my way home I was passed by a car doing nearly 40 between humps - in avoiding him, I had too little time to take his number - but I know it did not belong on the estate.

If he isn't paying for the new shocks he has probably discovered that the most comfortable speed is one where the cars suspension is working properly - somewhere between 40 and 50 mph is good for most cars, unless the bumps are illegal height, in which case you say goodbye to various low hanging parts of the car.

Faster speeds are possible, as was demonstrated by the experts in disregarding traffic law: The Kirkby Times repeats the frequent quote in a discussion on the subject http://www.kirkbytimes.co.uk/news_items/2003_news/roadhump_dangers.html. The quote being:

Sgt Mike Peck of Humberside Police's stolen vehicle pursuit team wrote:
We decided to leave the standard suspension alone because it combines excellent damping with long spring travel. It allows us to skim over 'traffic calming' humps at 70 mph and the sump guard helps prevent damage.

As usual Speed Humps only inconvenience the normal law abiding part of society - do you really think that the bank robber, car thief etc is going to slow down for them?


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