Safe Speed Forums

I think that you'll find that any "get off with it" advice is given concerning ludicrously draconian enforcement of inappropraite speed limits where it impacts upon ordinary motorists driving at safe and appropriate speeds for the conditions.


As usual BW, you've let your agenda override any vestige of common sense that you may posess.

A classic example is the case of "dan6000" - he received such a "hostile" response to his request for help over two speeding charges that he went away for a while and had a serious rethink about his driving. A couple of our BiB gave him some very good advice on COAST and he's now back, considering taking extra training and the IAM test. This is very practical road safety - a young man who had talent that ran out before his enthusiasm is now likely to become an excellent and safe driver (rather than just thinking himself so to be) before he had the misfortune to kill or injure anyone - including himself.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

With respect, sincerely, to you and Ian, I think your perspective on this is somewhat distorted.

A five year sentence (even with time off) is a bit more than a hard lesson. If (as is quite possibly the case) he is a young man with 'prospects', it could easily be a devastating blow to his life prospects (professional and domestic) from which he may never recover.

If he had hit and killed an innocent bystander whilst engaged in a burn-up, I can see how the sentence is justified (and could even be increased). As it is, the 'victim' was the person who willingly engaged in the common activity which led to the crash, but Jackson was not directly the cause of or involved in the crash.

To me, this looks like another case where the offender's culpability has been judged on the consequence os his act rather than on the act itself; except, in this case, I'm not sure whether the consequences were reasonably foreseeable (compare to the train crash caused by the driver who allegedly fell asleep at the wheel).

I have to agree with most of that, except to point out IG did say a VERY hard lesson.
Not the sort of lesson which is likely to encourage a respect for the law though.
It is more likely to lead to bitterness on his part - especially depending on which prison he ends up in, and his experiences there.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

There are two things wrong with what you say. First, in this case, it is to get off with DEATH by dangerous driving, not breaking the speed limit. Second, speed limits are appropriate – without them, the roads would be much worse than they already are.




Is that feeble minded ad-hominem I see there, pogo? I'll reply in kind in a moment.



Get out of it, you big softy! It was the tickets that made him think!

By the way, what do you reckon my agenda is?

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I stole this .sig

Perhaps we should only prosecute old people for DEATH BY DANGEROUS DRIVING, because old people don't have 'prospects', so it's OK to put them in gaol? Or do you mean something else?

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I stole this .sig

As IG says the lesson is very hard, and we possibly both implied the sentence is tough. possibly extreme. But I think the offence (Sec1) is right, and I have been led to believe that a trial may have exhibited more information about the case than we have been party to.

But from the information we have, there do seem to be horrible sentencing inconsistencies, and this does not help the public perception of justice.

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Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian

Here here!

Others will look upon this case and make decisions based on their conclusions.
We/they cannot keep repeating that there might well be more to the case than we have seen reported, we need to know that what we have read is correct, and how the judge arrived at the decision.
I asked in my earlier post, here would I have pleaded guilty, in the circumstance I described. I STILL do not know whether that would be the best course of action, so until I can have ALL the facts of the case in question, I have to say I might well choose to flee the country rather than risk a false verdict and punishment!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

basingwerk, please answer the following very simple question:

Have you ever exceeded a speed limit for any reason?

My position is simple. Speed limits should be used as a mechanism for advising drivers of an appropriate speed for the average conditions on a given piece of road, and the final responsibility for deciding what speed is safe should lie with the driver (who will, of course, have been required to demonstrate driving ability to a much higher standard than is currently mandated). Appropriate penalties should exist for those who choose to drive in a manner that, in the opinion of an expert police driver (i.e. the trafpol who do such a fine job on our roads), is dangerous.

The actual speed is irrelevant. The pertinent question is one of safety.

Your position seems to be that one should, without paying any heed to safety, prioritise above all else compliance with a number.

Safety is Job One. Nothing else is as important, and blind compliance to arbitrary limits compromises that.

I gaven't seen any advice given in this thread concerning avoiding a DbDD case. There's been considerable discussion about the inconsistency of sentencing in two very different cases, and the mooting of a possible micarriage of justice owing to one of the drivers appearing to have been very badly advised by an inadequately-prepared barrister.


There we must differ. An increasing number of speed limits are utterly inapropriate, they are set for political, not road-safety reasons. Speed limits are undoubtedly necessary - if for no other reason than to act as a general "hazard-level" warning to the inexperienced.


No. I'm not attacking your argument by attacking you as a person, I'm merely commenting upon your propensity for bringing any discussion on road safety back round to speed limits.


He'd already thought about that before posting here! He was convinced that he was a safe and skillful driver and came here (and I apologise to him if I'm putting words into his mouth) essentially for advice on "getting off" and some measure of sympathy for his plight. He got neither. Took umbrage, then had a rethink - which with luck will do him a lot of good as a motorist.


Essentially, you're a literate, high-grade troll.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

As far as I know, the only reasons I have ever exceeded a speed limit are 1) because I didn’t know I was doing it 2) I knew but I didn’t care or 3) I knew and I did care, but I was in a hurry so I had to do it 4) when I was trying to test the top speeds of various cars and motorbikes that I was mending 5) I was racing 6) I was testing my driving abilities 7) I was showing off. Apart from that, I’ve never broken the speed limit in my life.



Fair enough, JC, your position is clear. Unfortunately, if you use this proposal now, you will rightly get done for speeding, because, irrespective of what you think the word “limit” should mean, it IS an absolute limit, not a guide.



Please refrain from wilfully misreading my position in order to spread propaganda. My position is that one should pay heed to safety at all times while complying with the speed limit. Or that one should comply with the speed limit while paying heed to safety at all times, which is the same thing. I hope that now, my position is simple as well.

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I stole this .sig

Yes, sadly you're right. I'm a troll amongst an army of uber-trolls. But thanks for the "literate, high-grade" part - I'll remember that before I chew your arse off the next time.

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I stole this .sig

"uber-trolls"??? "Sorry Squiffy, not quite gettin' yer banter..."


Can't say that I've noticed any such damage... Perhaps you're a "Stealth Chewer"?

A bit like the blokes in the SAS who have marital problems because they're trained to get in and out without anyone noticing..

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev