Safe Speed Forums

Suppose you've just passed someone who has assisted you in overtaking on an unlit road at night - how do you say thanks?

The modern defacto standard appears to be the 'indicator wobble' - giving one right flash during a left - return-to-lane signal. I hate it. It looks, well, wobbly, and I worry that other vehicles might see the right signal and misunderstand. I also worry that a REAL right signal - for example to drive arond debris - might be missed because it was assumed to be 'the indicator wobble'.

For many years my preferred signal has been to kill all my lights for a fraction of a second.

An alternative is sometimes to give one flash of the hazard lights - often this can be achieved by pressing the switch half way.

How do you say thanks to a vehicle behind at night? And why do you do it that way?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Under those circumstances I would give a quick flash of my hazards.

I don't fancy the idea of killing all lights even for an instant.

However, it's not that often I overtake someone on a SC road at night.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

The same way as Paul... Flick my lights off for a brief moment. Why do I do it? Probably because that's how my dad used to do it 50-odd years ago when it was the "standard" truck drivers' response to courtesy.

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Usually one flash of the hazards for me on an unlit.

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If nothing else is around, and NO debris in the road, it's the wabble for me!
However, my hazard switch is available too, and I will use this when appropriate.
I dont like to kill the lights, because the chances are if you have just overtaken, you are 'making progress' and need to see clearly, or on some cars I have owned, you might fumble and find them slow to come back on!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I use the hazard flick to thank vehicle behind, and briefly kill the headlights to thank a car ahead (but only the headlights). But I used to do the wobble and the more common main beam flash (still do the latter during daylight though).

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How about giving them a 'wave' as I guess you would during the day, but turning the interior light on while you do it? (that would even be legal)

If I'm going to flash at someone who is behind me (ooo-err!) I usually use the fog light.

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Andrew.

I've been a lurker here for at least half a year and I just had to register to reply to this topic. I can't believe that anyone, never mind the owner of this site, would suggest turning off all your lights in the dark even if for an instant.

And overtaking is surely the worst time to do this as you must have accelerated to overtake and you can now see a large section of new road that the car you overtook was previously obscuring. You should immediately be paying attention and taking in the new road position and surroundings. NOT fidgeting with your lights and blacking out everything in front of you.

One flick of the hazards for me

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Speed camera policy Kills

In all seriousness I think we tend to oversimplify the nature of observation. In normal driving your 'visual attention' is flicking about all over the place. We have to check mirror and instruments, but that's just a tiny part of the way attention flits around. We have to drive in such a way that sub-second loss of attention (or in this case illumination) have little or no impact on our ability to deal with hazards.

In fact if we stared rigidly ahead, I think we'd drive into all sorts of trouble.

In the post overtake case, I'll do a left shoulder check too, which takes far longer than flashing the lights off.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Nowadays, to assuage our own insecurities, there is a temptation to say ‘thanks’ to everybody, but we shouldn’t expect people to say ‘thanks’ just for acting normally. We aren’t a nation of softies – we don’t need cheap flashy-light tricks.

I rarely say any 'thanks' to anybody in a car, and I expect none back. This is based on a simple principle. I only ever give information that is on-protocol - e.g. expected information. Any other ‘information’ given out can be misinterpreted and cause more confusion and risk than it is worth.

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rear fog light could easily be mistaken for a brake and the last thing you want someone you're "thanking" to do is take avoiding action.

personally I'd use the indicator wobble as it's what most people reconise as an acknowledgement but as I tend only to overtake with a significant speed advantage "guiding me in" is unessecary anyway and not something I like to rely on.

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I use the indicator wobble too if necessary, borrowed from truckers I believe. As hairyben says, its the most universally recognised thankyou signal.
As for killing ones lights momentarily....



As usual Paul postulates a good argument, but I believe it weaves a tangled web and doesn't actually say anything, sorry Paul. Furthermore, it risks conflicting with the good old 'speedo staring' argument viz, if we can deal with momentary loss of forward vision at night then surely we can also deal with glances down at the speedo?
Ultimately, IMHO, killing ones lights creates an unecessary hazard, albeit at transient one. And what if you unexpectedly fumble the switch and can't get the lights back on as rapidly as expected?

I think anything that acknowledges or encourages another road user to be more courteous should be encouraged.

We've discussed at length the lowering of societies standards of responsibility and bemoand the loss of courtesy and decency, so here's an opportunity to redress the balance.

If another driver offers me a courteous opening I'll always acknowledge it, even if I don't take advantage of it! I'd rather they went away with a warm glow of appreciation, rather than thinking "well f*** you then"...


If we all went on a Highway Code "work to rule" the road system would become unworkable. I live down a single track lane, it is not just preferable, it is essential that drivers give way over and above what the rules of the road dictate (which actually is nothing). If someone goes to the trouble of stopping and reversing 400 yards to let you past then the least you should do is acknowledge their trouble.

I do occasionally see drivers like you who don't bother, thinking it is their right that I make way for them. All I can say is I bet your ears must burn...

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I use the hazards both in day and night, as something commonly used on the continent, and a lot in South Africa.

Basingwork, I suppose you are the rude b*****d that never thanks anybody for anything. Doesn't say thanks when the someone holds the door open, or the cashier hand you your change. Perhaps it comes down to driving strictly according to the rules and ignoring the fact that such rules only form a framework in which co-operation is supposed also operate.

The simple fact is that enjoyable road use depends on co-operation between drivers, and signalling thanks helps to encourage this, and makes both parties feel a little happier with the world in general - they are then likely to give that little bit of technically not required, but essential for progress, co-operation at a later date, such as letting a car in from a side road while queuing. If somebody makes a little gesture and gets rewarded, then they do it again. If they try it a few times and just get rudely blanked, then they will think to themselves "Sod it, my little bit of consideration is not appreciated or reciprocated, I won't bother again" and life on the roads gets less friendly and much more stressful.

...oh, and to answer the question I'm an "indicator wobbler" too. I also use the headlamp "off-flash", but usually only as thanks to an oncoming driver who has made way, generally losing the lights for a second doesn't make any great odds to me in that situation.

Don't do the lights flash thing in a TR7 though! Turning the lights off also stowed the pop-up headlights which then had to go through an agonising 3 or 4 second cycle before they came back out again. One of those situations where a second feels like a minute...

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One flash of the hazards for me. Sometimes indicator wobble but I can't do that in my car because it gives three flashes for a nudge (ahem).

Very surprised at the lights off idea. I agree with point about attention but effect on other vehicles is problematic. Apart from anything else, killing all lights requires FOUR separate actions instead of one or two if hazard/wobble is used.

One flash of the hazard warnings for me too. No way would I turn off lights to be polite.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Do you drive a car or a pinball machine?

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
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Liebchen - ist rural manners.

I normally give one hazard flash to acknowledge courtesy in the dark. Ist easy enough to do. Or wobble indicator if better option at time. In Highland - think the roads relatively straight ...so perhap the 0,7 second twist of switch may be OK in dusk circumstance - but would not do so in pitch black condition. Also - you could not do this around here our roads are twisty und in Alps ... sheer drops!

If come across numpty who forget to put on light in first place... mix of flash headlamps, little tootle on horn, hazards und then three very rapid on/off switch of light if still has not twigged - though penny has usually dropped before get to that stage....

Also - before the overtake ist carried out - have done all the COAST checks anyway und positioned to have scanned well ahead to check overtake ist safe und that road has no hazard ahead which would have made overtake bad idea in first place. Ist common sense - nicht?

I gets my COASTy plug when I can!

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