Safe Speed Forums

I have received a letter re Speed Camera Offence saying that I have not replied to Notice of Intended Prosecution.

I have never received one.

The alleged offence was 12.7.05 and the letter just received is 20.9.05.

thanks

The have 14 days to send you and NIP. It has to be sent first class. But the problem is that 800,000 pieces of mail go missing in this country every year and there is no requirement to send the NIP recorded delivery.

I should ask for a copy of the original urgently.

I have never known the courts come down in favour of a defendant because there was no proof of delivery.

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Speed camera policy Kills

They have to send the NIP within 14 days of the offence. Doesn't say you necessarily have to receive it within 14 days, and in fairness to the partnerships it's hard to blame them if the post office lose the thing (except inasmuch as it's a stupid system anyway ). Someone will probably be able to give you more on that if you stick around, but meantime if I were you I'd mooch over to the forums at www.pepipoo.com and have a chat with them about this. They're very into the legal side of things and I'd be very surprised if they haven't come across something like this before.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

NIP goes to the registered keeper within 14 days

it is quiet weird though that people say they did not recieve the first NIP, they don't get a reminder, but oh they get a court warning delivered to the same address (very strange that)

I'd say it's even more 'weird' that the scamerati could send the NIP by recorded delivery but choose not to.

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Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

i agree mrs miggins,
no doubt there is a cost implication somewhere, or in order to post by recorded delivery do you have to go to the post office?

Most business premises have their mail uplifted, and recorded/special delivery items are uplifted at the same time so I'm afraid "there's too many to take to the PO" doesn't work as an excuse, feeble as it would be anyway.

Given the ridiculous amounts of money being collected in fines every year it's not as if they can't afford the 66p extra it would cost per NIP.

Used to do that at a small shop I used to run (turnover about a couple of hundred grand). If such a small operation could manage to do it even the smallest partnership has no excuse IMO.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

It always amazed me that my lodgers city councils housing benifit cheques got lost in the post.. the same post that delivered my fortnightly pay slip with a 100% record.

I blamed the senders on that occasion.

Quite weird? Are you suggesting that because one letter gets lost/is not delivered that there should somehow be a greater probaility that a subsequent letter should also be lost/not delivered? And if any subsequent letter is delivered it somehow makes it less likely that a previous one was not delivered. What school of reasoning does that come from?

The clear and irrefutable fact is that some (probably a very small %age) of letters are lost in the system. Do you really think that NIPs issued by ticket offices should be magically immune from that risk?

Non-service of a NIP on the registered keeper within 14 days of the offence is an absolute defence, provided you present your case properly. But are you sure there is no reason why the NIP may have been wrongly addressed. Answer these questions:

Are you the registered keeper?
For how long have you been the RK?
Is your name/address correctly recorded on the V5?
Would you be able/willing to give evidence, under oath, that you did not receive a NIP (bear in mind that lying under oath is far more serious than speeding?

If the answer to the above is yes, long time, yes and yes, you should be able to avoid conviction. Get over to http://www.pepipoo.com/NewForums2/index.php and post full details on Judicial Process. I may see you there.

what i am suggesting is that it's a bit weird that a NIP is sent to the registered address of a motorist, it does not get there, a reminder is sent to the same address, it does not get there. but hey presto send a court warning and the defendant gets it.

ok 2 letters from the SCP from one address, CPS / court from another address, unless the is a rogue postman binning the letters he picks up from the SCP

the above is an brief overview from the magistrate at a court case i went to

Rather than a rogue postman, how about an incompetent partnership? All the more reason for the scammers to get proof of posting and delivery by way of the RD receipt, I'd have thought.

If I told you I posted something and you didn't get it how would you know that I actually did post it? You'd ask for proof, surely? And if I couldn't prove that I posted it...?

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Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

That's not the case here though, is it? I'm sure some people who claim not to have received a NIP are lying. Equally, some are telling the truth. They are entitled, in law, to immunity from conviction. Whether or not they received a reminder is immaterial.



That's not a rogue, that's a public servant.

In this case it sounds like only the NIP went missing. dunvant1 just said he'd got a letter saying he hadn't replied to the NIP, not a court warning. Not beyond the bounds of possibility is it?

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

ok

I'm sure there is a record of date of posting. Neveretheless, the law states that a person "shall not be convicted" if a NIP is not served within 14 days of the offence. Nothing grey about that.

thats

Would you be willing to state that lie in court? Remember, the penalty for perjury is far greater than 3 pts and a £60 fine.

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Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

My NIP arrived in a computer generated A4 sized tear apart flimsy envelope, not unlike the ones from the Readers Digest which say open immediately for your chance to win.
I threw it in the bin without opening it, but was intruiged when I later saw it on top, and noticed they had an address detail which usually escaped the junk mail crowd, so I retreived it and opened it.
Imagine my relief when I saw the offence was dated for the middle of my holiday in France!!

As a business user, sending several packets everyday, I have lots of mail get delayed, and a few go missing.
I made THREE attempts to send a namebadge from Staveley to Barrow, the first two both went missing! Not long afterwards, a postman from Carnforth was caught with £10,000 worth of mail stuffed into his garden shed!! I was told that once an item is opened in the course of an attempted theft, that even if the item is worthless to the thief, they dispose of the evidence anyway.
Recorded mail goes astray too, and I have had three items of Gtd. Next Day delivery mail go missing, despite it being bar coded in and out of every depot. One was wrongly delivered to an address about 3 miles from it's intended destination, (and was signed for by the housekeeper of the address!) and I had already replaced the item before it was reported found - I got the cost of the postage back, but not the item I had to replace because of their incompetance.
Incidentally all three lost items went to or close to Southampton, from Staveley.
I know from my experience that legal notice should NEVER be entrusted to ordinary post - and the cost is hardly likely to make a dent in the penalty - it's just they cannot stand to see all those extra pennies adding up!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!