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 Post subject: SAFE CYCLING!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 01:51 
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Knowing some basic rules makes all the difference per CW and their advice is same as I would give :wink: In fact RoSPA contributed to this piece in the CW special this week...

RoSPA's Kevin Clinton more or less spells out C O A S T throughout the piece without naming it . :roll: But COAST has a number of guises and we choose to use it as do Lancs as a simple easy -to remember message for ALL ROAD USERS!


Kevin Clinton of RoSPA in CW wrote:

The simplest way to avoid accidents is to be aware of all the conditions around you and to anticipate what others may do and ract by giving space and time to them"


Well - that's C O A S T regardless opf what I read on a lurk on a certain cycling channel ... whose members appear to criticise this site :wink: :wink: :wink:


Kevin Cinton contnues:

Quote:

Car doors, pedestrians, drain covers, cars turning and driver forgetting to signal are all events which form the unexpected and you should never expect another road user to act as you would do


Um ... we've spent 18 months so far saying this..... YOu heard it here first. Yup! :yesyes: THIS SITE IS ABOUT ROAD SAFETY FIRST AND FOREMOST! Drivers are similarly affected by numpties and not one person on this earth can claim to be perfect. Why we will never zeroise accidents and can only hope to minimise them.

CW says that knowing your route will help best guess where it's best to use the cycle lanes and where hazards occur. Note where drivers may fail to signal or pull out of side junctions into the flow. CONCENTRATE< OBSERVE ANTICIPATE PLAN - er t----this is COAST! :wink: :wink: :wink: You heard it on here first! :lol:

And Kriss appears vindicated after last year: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


CW and RoSPA remind - as Krissi did and got hammered on a cycling site :roll:
Quote:


The Highway Code recommends that cyclist wear helmets :lol: and bright clothing :lol:


Aside - on drivetime there was a competition and the woman contestant was aksed why NY cabs are yellow. The answer was because several USA universities concluded after a lot of research that yellow is the most noted colour by humans and it does not matter how much yellow is around - WE SEE IT!

CW continues: Manager of Cycle Training UK advises making eye contact with other road users when they may place you in danger. People are essentially decent and do consider their actions! You MUST indicate your intention to other road users.

Check out a safe speed page where Paul says all this :wink: and a past post of mine :wink:

You must get out of the gutter says CW ....

:yesyes: My advice is to be one metre for kerb and a door width past parked cars. This is what :bib: cyclists are taught :wink:


If you ride too close to the kerb says Dansky - you risk being hit by car doors and you may lose a court case.... :wink: We said it. :yesyes:

Quote:

Get out of the gutter and into the stream of traffic. Be seen and do not be afraid of ensuring you are seen


:yesyes: Sounds familiar to me. We discussed in another thread on this site....why I think we should group them for benefit of site users. The SS Be safe on Your Bike Sub Forum...making it an easy find for those interested :wink:

Dansky spells out the CTC cycling/trainer syllabus:

VISIBILITY


AWARENESS

COMMUNICATION

Dansky in CW wrote:

If in a pinch point or narrow road you ride inthe centre of the lane - you are visible to a driver. You are not in a SMIDSY!" Look hehind you and be courteous - acknowledge the driver - a nod prevents any aggression and be sure to move in and assist the later oertake



Seems sound to me. Perhaps the C+ people may like to comment on this? This was from CYCLING WEEKLY and I read this and find this to be a worthwhile expense. :lol:

Edited once for some daft typos and again to corect quotes! :roll:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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 Post subject: Re: SAFE CYCLING!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:20 
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In Gear wrote:
If you ride too close to the kerb says Dansky - you risk being hit by car doors and you may lose a court case.... :wink: We said it. :yesyes:


well it's better to be safe than dead but I doubt you'd lose the court case as the highway code is quite clear about this:

Quote:
46: you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:28 
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Ah - but courts can and do look at both sides and in past decision, they have been known to split liability if the other party can prove the plaintiff could have reasonably foreseen the danger.

Courts are such strange places and nothing is cut and dried.... :roll: or a foregone conclusion.... :roll:

Lawyers..... :roll: :roll:

PS - It's rule 214 :wink: and I know of two cyclists losing on this to date. One was on the road and riding too close to the parked cars. He had damaged a wing miorror on another car before the someone opened a door without looking, Damages were reduced it went - 80% to driver and /20% to cyclist. The other lost his case completely.... because he rode into a passenger door whilst riding on the pavement :wink:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:58 
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Just a few more tips regarding hazard awareness for cyclsits :wink:

Hazard Awareness - Reminder.

Already covered through COAST discussions in the past but the same techniques help all to keep it safe! All decisions must have margin for error and contingency plans whether in car or on bike.

Good Concentration and using all senses to observe are the keys for all road users. As this allows us to anticipate and prioritise hazards, and plan the required amount of Space and Time for the other road user. I would warn all drivers that the reason why the cyclist has looked behind I does not mean you can overtake because they have seen you. That cyclist has looked behind for a reason and this is your signal to anticipate the hazard of the cyclist re-positioning on approach to a pinch point, avoiding a pot hole or simply checking before passing parked cars or simply making a right turn!

Learn too to look at the road surface – applies just as much to drivers as cyclists. Mud, gravel, wet leaves (and smell of diesel spill on road is helpful to a cyclist. Drivers could also benefit from being just a little more aware and using eyes a bit more :wink: when scanning the road ahead. :wink:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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 Post subject: Re: SAFE CYCLING!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 20:45 
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In Gear wrote:
Well - that's C O A S T regardless opf what I read on a lurk on a certain cycling channel ... whose members appear to criticise this site :wink: :wink: :wink:


Quote:
And Kriss appears vindicated after last year: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


Quote:
CW and RoSPA remind - as Krissi did and got hammered on a cycling site :roll:



So, you don't like C+ then, don't hide it IG, let it out!

You'll feel so much better!

:cry:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 20:50 
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Sorry, forgot to say. If I filter out all the "personal" comments the rest of your post is good advice IG.


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 Post subject: Re: SAFE CYCLING!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 22:07 
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Peyote wrote:
In Gear wrote:
Well - that's C O A S T regardless opf what I read on a lurk on a certain cycling channel ... whose members appear to criticise this site :wink: :wink: :wink:


Quote:
And Kriss appears vindicated after last year: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:


Quote:
CW and RoSPA remind - as Krissi did and got hammered on a cycling site :roll:



So, you don't like C+ then, don't hide it IG, let it out!

You'll feel so much better!

:cry:


My life would not be worth living if I did not defend my cousin ;) :lol: :roll: :wink:

But let's face it - she took a lot of flak at the time and she's game for a laugh - fortunately she could laugh, shrug and walk away - unless someone libels the family ;) We know which members of this family are on on-line activities to some extent. Kriss and Mike are long term C+ members but seldom post there now as they have found a place where they can talk bikes and cars without acrimony - foreign sites ;) She likes C+ as she gets to use her English and she's better at spelliing than our Wildy :neko: : :lol: :D those two are like chalk anbd cheese. Kriss is blunt and Wildy? just natural . :love: But I respect and like my foreign cousins anyway. :wink: I am being perfectly honest - and not family loyalty either - that bunch are seriously competent motorists, bikers and cyclists.

But you have to admit - there are some very odd types on C+ - one is our resident nonny troll and my reasoned take? Perhaps he has close friend or relative who was the victim of a numpty?

I did post at one time that I was a BiB from hell some 15 years ago - and my brothers and GiB sister really did pull anything on site in what we are all ashamed to concede was a knee-jerk and very unprofessional reaction to personal tragedies at the time. We did take stock of ourselves and whilst we will take some credit that some 40% of our then "witch hunt" was justified - we are mortified to think the rest or our pulls at the time were not really "professional" and if you were a Manchester driver 15 years ago and was pulled by svelte, tall bloke with an acid line - then :oops: :oops: :oops: sorry!


But am delighted you think rest is very sound advice. But every person on this site is concerned about improving road safety for all - and as a police officer - am honour bound to try to make people think about road safety and how their action affects another road user. I disagree with speed cams in prinicple and can honestly state that honest down to earht basic policing is why Durham' record is one to be proud of - and we stress that we are ashamed to record any incident bit are mature enough to concede that whilst humans are humans - mistakes will occur... :roll:

IN THE MEANTIME

Can only stress - please no mattter how you travel - apply COAST, Green Cross Code, re-read HC and all the Craft books - it will save your lives - and please please do not believe that sticking to a lollipop sign guarantees safety - safe speed is more than a lolly. It's about matching your speed to road conditions which may well be BELOW the lollipop sign. AND yes I am well aware some speed limits have no common senses atttached whatosever and speed enforcement in such zones is money making and not safety led at all. :roll:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 21:35 
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i have no idea what half this thread is about... i'm pleased to say.

go quibble elsewhere.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 22:03 
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Um - tis about a CTC pamphlet. :wink:

Basically the pamphlet as published by the CTC adovocates a COAST approach to cycling as does Frankiln;s Cyclling Craft around page 51/53.

My dig at C+ is because they poured scorn on COAST despite Franklin's diagram which is exactly per Police COAST teachings :wink:

It's a very long story but my cousin Krissi (Wildy's sister) posted on C+ 11 months ago and mainly advocated COAST, visibility and voiced concerns over non wearing of helmets, non use of lights, refusal to wear fluorescent sashes or vests and a compete refusal of COIAST - even stating the message to be "Nonsenes as no internet web site other that safepeed and PH carries the message as advocated by that strange Swiss bob" :wink:

Wrong! DIS and Speed Awares do refer to COAST and Mad Doc posted proof of this via Ernest. :lol:

edm - my cousin Krissi and her husband received such spiteful comments that it pains me to even think such people exist. :censored: :furious:

Peyote posts to C+ and I really respect and like his attitude. Comes across to me as a really nice chap - but he found Kriss and her husband and home triuthing trollsters on C+ as bit OTT at times. Perhaps. Kriissi can be blunt., but she is Yorkshire/Appenzellerin :wink: Genetically prgrammed to be blunt and stubborn :lol:

I know both of them as Krissi is my first cousin and I did baby sit on odd occcasions when she was a mere child :wink:. She's got a sense of humour , is very sporty and really very pleasant. However, she really calls spades "spades" and her bluntness did not go down too well on C+ last December... :roll:

No harm in her at all.

By the way my post is per a CTC pamphlet :wink: It ahppens to endorse COAST! :wink: As does John Franklin :wink:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:56 
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but this isn't C+


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:16 
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ed_m wrote:
but this isn't C+


Um we have posted from the site who lurk on here as well as post on here. My sister-in-law posted up COAST on the site and their reaction was a little strange. There was a lot of bitching on their site over COAST and we could not understand it.

If you read IG's post he simply posted an article which appeared in "Cycling Weekly" and within CTC publications and everything posted can be proven as it all exists in black and white published copy and all available in back issue from CW and the CTC. His comments regarding my sister-in-law are down to the fact that she still gets libelled on that site for posting up a safety message. :roll: Hence - we will chuck in a defence every so often for the benefit of the lurkers.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 20:55 
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ed_m wrote:
but this isn't C+


Not sure what your problem is, mate. My opening post was about the article in CW and the sound advices given - which is basically C O A S T.


My references to my cousin were a bit tongue in cheek and are pointed at those who do lurk on here, post c:censored:p in the nonny forum - and are not open to reasoned debate on any subject.
And I think we all know whom I really mean. :wink:

We are more than aware of recent comments about this family on the site in question. It is very unpleasant stuff and really shows the poster to be exactly what he is. :roll: Nobody has to spell it out. Even the regulars on the site in question are getting weary of it if my reading of the comments is correct. Such types do not help cyclists at all - and the whole point of this section is to correct attitudes/

Cycling and driving are equally safe means of travelling - and each user is equally entitled to use the roads - but safety depends on the a pulling together of all road users and we must all be constantly aware of potential dangers, good road sense and COAST skills - and we must all appreciate the road position of the cyclist, the biker, the large long vehicle and the bendy bus if we are to keep it safe out there.



Ted and I made a reference to our cousin in the above posts to vindicate her to C+ lurkers in particular (and a brief read-through of the goings on over there prove they lurk! :wink:) as she got hammered for posting this same stuff on C+ last year. Blood is thicker than water in any case and I happen to like and respect my foreign cousins. I am sorry Peyote and yourself read it as a personal attack on C+ - it was intended to defend Kriss only - and not attack the website in any case.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 20:07 
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i dont find taking personal arguments and grudges between sites very helpful.. tis all.

i dont really think i should need to know the history to understand all the posts and little digs that keep appearing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 14:15 
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Fair enough ed_m, apologies for dragging it back up.

I was a bit edgy when I posted my original reply, I just get annoyed at the digs sometimes. I guess the history of it all is still uncomfortable. That and the animosity between C+ and Pistonheads kicked off at the end of last week, and that got on my nerves too.

Basically I was having a bad day and took it out here. Sorry.


So, everyone having a good Monday? It's bl**dy cold here, but a beautiful day, great for commuting by bike!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 14:34 
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i think anything we can do to avoid board wars of this kind is worth doing.

i still need to get my commuting machine up and running as i'm meant to be working a tuesday commute into my training. being dark and cold outside in the evenings isn't conducive to bike tinkering unfortunately.

(plus i can barely walk after 26miles in the peak district this weekend)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 00:00 
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ed m - the only person making an issue is yourself. If you read my OP properly - I did not mention any specific website when I mentioned my cousin. My final sentence was merely an invitation to C+ lurkers to join in.

As for what went on on that site last week? :roll: Nothing to do with me or any member of my family Everything to do with the resident troll on all internet fora. - especailly that one which is a magnet to that sort of person as it appears tolerated there - or rather people feed it with replies :wink:



My advice to all wherever they post - ignore it. It feeds on people noting it and responding. Don't respond. Guy will giive up as he needs the replies for his feed and fix. Think about it.! :wink:

I did not understand how or why the comments in my OP were taken to be a "insult" in realiity - but if Peyote decided to read as such - sorry. But since the my family was dragged up on the site in question and that site allows public comments such as it did last week - redress was posted for public at large to read here. Do not bother to reply to me on this subject or even try to read something in my post which ain't there. - matter closed. Or let's put another way - try to twist some insult which is not there and you will find out what an acid lecture is all about. :wink:

My reason for posting up some basics on cycling safety os to provide a point of reference and to make drivers aware of the cylclist point of view as well. I am hoping more cyclists will add their tuppence worth and commeter eperiences for debate on safe practice and a learning base for all who post. browse and lurk.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:00 
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ok ok... moving on...

i don't recall ever being taught COAST explicitly for my ROADA test, just applying 'the system' as per roadcraft (can't find the book just now) which wasn't quite the same thing.

i've always been fairly switched on in terms of observation & anticipation in cycling, i'm amazed anyone lasts long without them! and hence always been fairly confident in terms of indicating my intentions and positioning myself to reinforce that.

The roadcraft stuff had a big effect on my driving (and still does), a lesser effect on my cycling (as i could already get away with less than you might in a car) and a surprisingly large effect on my running.


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