Safe Speed Forums

Having read through the tailgating thread, there was some interesting stuff, particularly the research on Traffic Waves.

I want to start a topic on braking, and how many people are brake happy.

I am not brake happy, and I think I do the traffic wave thing of seeing jams ahead and slowing but not braking and by the time I've reached the next car I don't have to brake and the cars behind me don't have to.

I do approximately 550miles a week - covering M23 and M25 and I hardly ever use my brakes. But I see a lot of people braking for now reason.

Do you get fed up with people who brake nervously / unecessarily? Is some of this down to 'surroundings awareness'?

Brakes (and B.R.A.K.E ) are the enemy of progress. The more you have to brake, the less efficient your driving style is, (happy IAMs) the more fuel you'll probably use (keep the Greenies happy).

Excessive braking, eg. for every bend in the road, oncoming vehicle etc. is just a manifestation of poor planning bred into the masses that "if the signs says 60 - I can do 60.....oh, wait. I'm not confident in my, or my cars abilities - better scrub off some speed, after all speed (no matter how fast/slow) is dangerous." This is why you get stuck behind morons that won't let anybody past on rural B roads sticking to 35 or 45 all the way, or long 70mph sweeping bends that 'need' braking half way through (hello Mr Slide, meet Mr Amco) because any amount of lateral 'G' is "freakin' them out". Or worse still, braking or slowing down WHILST overtaking, especially HGV's. Ooooh! Scary buffeting (eating egg canopes?), better brake a bit to drag out the terror & hold up everybody behind me.

IMHO, brakes are there to maintain control over the 2 tons of metal you pilot. Overuse, or sporadic 'comfort braking' shows you are right on the edge of your ability to control the vehicle, or at least your perceived mental & emotional limits.

Rant over!!

I think Hobbes got it there. Personally I used to drive on the M60 daily, and I saw it as a failure in my driving ability if I had to brake whilst in normal flowing traffic - that is with no 'traffic waves' or other hazards. The one that really gets me is the driver who, whilst on a NSL s/c brakes every time he passes a vehicle travelling in the oposite direction. I agree that it shows a lack of forethought and confidence.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Hobbes - exactly my sentiments!
Excessive braking is one of my pet hates...

Yep, lack of forethought etc - driver/surrounding awareness. I wonder if there are many people out there who just can't judge speed well.

I don't think its a question of being able to judge speed, its a case of actually looking far enough ahead to have time to react.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I'm not sure that it works absolutely like this. On a motorway, the drivers of the vehicles behind you have to be like minded, they also have to slow up in response to your slowing and a rate that at least equals your own and lets face it, most won't. They's come up behind and brake, perhaps just a little, forcing the vehicles behind to brake harder and before you know it the braking pulses down the queue of traffic increaseing in magnitude until someone comes to a halt.
I believe that its been proven that if vehicles entreing a zone of increased traffic density (and hence lliklihood of a braking wave pulsing back down the queue) can be slowed up in stages, the traffic will continue to flow beyond the point at which it would previously have brought itself to a standstill. Again, everyone has to be 'on board', realise whats going on and why and not try to take advantage by, for example, jumping into any gaps which appear.
Another 'nailing jelly to the ceiling scenario' I'm afraid.

Just to add a little to Rigpigs comments re. 'driver in front / driver behind'.

Personally I'm not always looking at the driver in front per se, I could be scaning 1/4 a mile / 10 cars ahead to pre-emt the braking pattern likely to domino down the road or glancing back at the following traffic. (Has saved me from being 'raped' a few times in 'emergency stop' situations!)

I have found it is usualy because people drive too close. Especialy on the fast lane of the M25. If you hang back a few extra lengths you don't need to hit the brakes just because the car in front dabs his. I try to smooth out the flow whenever I can.

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills

I'm not fully in agreement with the ideas emerging in this thread. I'd hate to think that someone who needed to brake was delayed in so doing because of a mental construct that says "braking=bad".

And covering the brake can save a hugely valuable 0.2 second if you do so in advance of an emergency developing. If covering the brake brings the brake lights on, then so be it.

We must all be as ready as possible to brake when necessary. After all consider the following graph:



Notice how fast the fatality risk drops? 0.1 seconds could easily save a life.

From http://www.safespeed.org.uk/braking.html

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

SS, I'm not advocating people should never use their brakes. I'm saying excessive braking is often ridiculous and causes a lot of congestion. I will cover my brakes should I feel the need to, and stay aware of anything that may develop, however I find that by keeping a nice distance away from other cars and regulating my speed means I don't have to brake often. There are times when I have to brake and that's fine. What annoys me is people persistenly tapping their brakes for no good reason and that could be construed as lack of control on their part or they are more often than not tailgating.

Agreed.

Excessive braking is often the result of following too closely. The vehicle ahead brakes, and the one following has to do likewise immediately, as he has no time to assess how hard the car in front is braking, or whether he is likely to speed up again doon (assessed by looking firther ahead).

it's usually combined with treating the throttle like an on/off switch. Accelerate hard/slam on brakes/accelerate hard/slam on brakes (eventually one day followed by hit patch of oil... slide into car in front).

Yes, it is surprising the way some drivers accelerate hard, then slam on their brakes - it doesn't get them any further, but it will wear their tyres quicker and consume more fuel.

One time I was on the joyful M62 (lovely motorway) and it is notorious for retaining lakes of water when it has rained hard. I did see a fair few peeps slam on their brakes right in the middle of the water...clever stuff.

I have to admit that I find myself braking more and more on the m-ways, however, I keep a minimum 2 second gap adjusting as appropriate for the weather etc so I have a nice large gap in front of me (my safet space as I view it) only to have two or three prats nudge in then slam their brakes on, they have gained 20 feet or so then anchored up in front of me.

WHAT FOR ????

I drop back increase the gap and another cretin does the same, why not just keep a large gap and finisse the accelerator ?? Or is that an old fashioned idea ??

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

speaking of which, does anyone have any idea why people will come flying past you in L3 pull back into L2 or L1 and then slow down so much that you have to pass them again only for them to come flying past you again a few minutes later whereupon the process repeats itself??? (I should add that this happens on relatively empty motorways)

You then have to drop back to allow some sensible room only to have it happen again, and... I once heard it described as "the only way to go backwards in a forwards gear!".

_________________
"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

A591 Bannerigg approaching Windermere.
Starts with a left hand bend with 35 mph advisory limit, and 10% incline warning.
Too many drivers take the bend, start down the incline, and are then taken by surprise by a long righthand bend, (which tightens at the end, before leading straight into a long left, then straight up the hill).
A SHARP stab at the brake results, followed by more as they change direction between bends.

Anybody behind who has not anticipated such a course of action, and left a sufficiant gap will be forced to brake too. At busy times, the braking vehicles trailing the intiial vehicle get closer to the start of the sequence, until vehicles are being forced to brake for the 35 advisory, despite being at the required speed.
The 35 advisory is ludicrously slow - even the most cautious driver could take the bend at 40 - 45, and the following bends pose no problem to an experienced and competant driver, and yet this section of road has seen numerous accidents. I feel certain bad planning and braking is the reason for most of the incidents, and some of the bother is caused therefore by unnecessary braking.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Ernest, there is a similar problem at Handcross (A23). During peak times it is a nightmare. It should be 50mph going around some bends, but the amount of traffic that piles up because people go too fast then brake hard or so damn slow a tractor could overtake them. Yes; approach bends with caution etc etc but some drivers could benefit from seeing what's ahead rather than keeping their eyes glued to the bumper in front of them.