Safe Speed Forums

See related thread on your bad habits in general chat.

There've been some pretty anal and humourless posts on this forum since I've been here, from people who clearly think they have nothing to learn about driving, so I thought I'd take a sounding.

This doesn't mean I consider this forum to be unwelcoming or unfriendly

I voted 'above average' but only when compared to the driving population as a whole. I wouldn't say I was especially advanced, but I do take an active interest in the quality of my driving and casually assess what I could impove on. I've mentioned previous that I need to work harder on reading the road far enough ahead, although whilst I do believe I'm competant as it is, I'm certainly not upto advanced standard. I also believe I can be a little over-cautious. I'm sure this is by no means a bad thing, but I'm sure I could safely sacrifice some caution to make better progress. However, I do try and keep my speed up when safe, and make every effort to allow for overtaking if there are faster drivers behind.

The good points however are that I believe I make good judgements on speed and distance of other vehicles on motorways and emerging from junction. I have good lane discipline, and am constantly aware of the position of the vehicles around me and keep good distances. I am also good at cadence braking, having never owned an ABS-equipped car.

I voted Average. I have my share of bad habits; more importantly I have my "male PMS" days when in retrospect I should not typically be allowed anywhere near a road. Thankfully these are few and far between, and I have learned for the most part to deal with this aspect of my life I would really rather not have.

I think anyone who is here obviously takes an interest in their driving it naturally follows this would raise them above the average.

Can you point some of them out? I don't recall too many like that around these parts. Perhaps some things are getting lost in translation?
For example I don't believe anybody is going to come straight out and say "oh yes, my beliefs were completely wrong." rather they'll have a several page slanging match and then quietly come around while you're not looking.

As it happens I couldn't name a single one...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I voted average.
I reckon it's easy to imagine that you're above average when you see all the bad driving that goes on around you every day.
But, by definition, 50% of drivers are below average, and 50% of 30 million amounts to an awful lot of numpties.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

I wouldn't want to name names, because I'd rather make a point without the thread turning in to a bunfight, because that is childish.

I guess the "Is indicating a lost function" thread is a good example, off the top of my head.

I guess I was more interested in replicating the survey a few years back on a very similar basis. The results, I recall, were that far more than half drivers considered themselves better than average.

There are some people who come across as somewhat dogmatic that their way is best (e.g. in recent threads about indicating and gears vs brakes)

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Yes. I accept that. But then is everyone supposed to be able to solve the problems and decide on the best course individually? I think that would be unrealistic. Some folk - many folk - will need to adopt advice. Are they then dogmatic? And if they are, is that wrong?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

There are different ways of offering advice. "This works for me" or "Maybe you should consider this" are likely to be more effective than "this is the only true path and I can't understand how people can do it the other way", especially on subjects where it is recognised there is a genuine divergence of views.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Ok. Sure. I accept that. I think we were talking about different aspects of a situation. I was thinking about dogmatic beliefs and you were thinking about a dogmatic communications style.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I think there's a very positive local bias in as much as anyone who is interested enough to participate here is likely to be well above average. At least we know that the folk here are thinking about it and that's about 2/3rds of the entire battle.

And then there's the driver quality frequency distribution. Those few at the bottom of the driver quality distribution contribute hugely to crash stats and the median driver's crash risk is way way below the average crash risk.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

In addition to the self-selection, the distribution, often assumed to be Gaussian, is more then likely such that more than half of all drivers will be above (arithmetic) average, as those that are below average will have a far looser distribution than those above average.

What an interesting idea! And here's a spin off idea:

In the top 20% of drivers won't we find quite a few who are effectively perfect because their actual real world performance means they never have an accident in a lifetime?

I appreciate that they still have a statistical risk of crashing - but for large numbers - millions I expect - we can never actually hope to classify them because they never generate any crash data.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Agreed.

But it could be argued that being a "good" or "excellent" driver involves an element of technical skill and positive attitude as well as simply crash/near miss avoidance. And anyone who starts to think they are effectively perfect most assuredly isn't.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I think I agree with the position you are both closing in on. Some people are very good drivers, but no-one should think they have nothing to learn.

In my opinion there is also a large element of luck involved.
Many drivers will, despite being average to mediocre skillwise, go years, or even decades, without coming close to having an accident - because fortune has seen to it that they are never in the "wrong place at the wrong time".
Unfortunately, it can also happen that these same drivers will have a serious accident the very first time they do happen to be in "the wrong place at the wrong time", because they haven't developed the skills to deal with the situation.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Not voting. Have posted in the past that I consider I learn each time I drive or ride anywhere anyway. That's what driving is all about.

All BiBs related to the Swiss are outside their "pact" because of our jobs. We cannot guarantee not placing ourselves in some kind of bother.

Have been a passenger/co driuver in track and other fun events with this family - they are competent and still - like me - learning.

If I recall - in the bad habits thread - you said you drive close to the kerb - MM pointed this out as a real for variety of reasons and think he suggested that if you still do this - you are not learning. from an error.

Whilst we applaud anyone who is aware enough to note a habit crreping in - we do ask what you do to remove once aware of one.

In some ways - thiis family is a fortunate one. We are all enthusiasts and we all drive with each other and we all know that a very critical eye is watching the driver on these occasions! Mad Doc does go a bit pale when he drives me and his wife (Wildy just laughs and tells me if I dislike her driving - there's always a bus I can use! " Liebchen ]

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