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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 20:47 
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Roger wrote:
The one CJ quoted - "Oncomiong Vehicle" is the least ambiguous, least distracting (at least insofar as eyes-to-the-sign is concerned), but possibly the most adrenaline-stirring too.


I suspect that's a deadly message. If I was the cop with my hand on the switch I don't suppose I'd EVER press it.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 21:00 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Roger wrote:
The one CJ quoted - "Oncomiong Vehicle" is the least ambiguous, least distracting (at least insofar as eyes-to-the-sign is concerned), but possibly the most adrenaline-stirring too.


I suspect that's a deadly message. If I was the cop with my hand on the switch I don't suppose I'd EVER press it.


I would - if either I or a (trusted) colleague had seen it and confirmed the score. I wouldn't do it on the say so of Joe Soap.

I'm truly not sure how deadly "oncoming vehicle" is. It's not an easy one is it.

Setting aside the distraction factor of your message for the moment (ie let's assume in two or three well-chosen words we can convey the instruction "We have an emergency, park up now on the shoulder"). what will that do? All eyes will start looking left - away from front - to find gaps to get across. This is likely to be as deadly as rubber-necking I think - the one in front has braked while you're looking left. People will be overtaking to avoid rearending and generally positions will be swapping.

What does "Oncoming Vehicle" do? Make people scrub off speed, probably creating peristaltic waves of stop start traffc - a typical rush-hour phantom traffic jam, with only the ones in the front wondering what to do. On balance I still see that as the lesser bad of the two.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:30 
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thats horrifing, and another reason that I'm glad a I drive a large, heavy vehicle, apart from the survivabilty I can see over cars in front and react early.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:34 
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Follow up to this story in Manchester/Bolton/Bury/Wigan papers

John Scheerhout reports for the "MEN" and pool reporters for the rest.

Manchester paper wrote:

Alcohol Found in M6 Crash Renault

Police investigators found alcohol and tablets in the car involved in a head on smash after if was driven the wrong way down the M6, killing the driver and leaving a family in another car with horrible injuries.



The driver of the Megane, who had driven south for 14 miles along the northbound stretch of the M6 was killed instantly.

It is understood that he had a row with his partner hours earlier and stormed off in his car. :rolleyes:



Hmmm.... not rocket science to guess this was at root of this illogical behaviour. Does not help that family much though. :rolleyes: - and if he intended self harm or suicide - then involving innocents? What kind of person does this? Must have been some row... :cry: :shock: :cry:

Wildy and self, like all couples, have our sparring moments where we disagree and she can be irritating :roll: )lots of "Aber Liebchen" purrs and lapses into German (her nasal Appenzeller twang) - and can be maddeningly logical - and I admit - am lucky - am in a good solid partnership and know full well we are all different and sometimes stress at the wrong time can tip someone over the edge. It may be the case in this tragedy - but still does not help the family whose 9 year old is in a very serious condition in hospital.

M.EN wrote:

Police are still investigating as to whether he was drunk at the wheel. Other motorists have told police that there were several near misses in the first 8 miles of his 70 mph dash along the wrong side of the carriageway.

Mr B's estranged wife says that her ex husband waqs a loving and caring man who enjoyed life to the full and idolised his little boy. His family meant the world to him.

His estranged wife says she was with him for 20 years, but did not know his current partner. She sends her condolences to his current girlfriend.



Nice of her - I understand because she was his wife and knew him better than I do. I only know from the reports in press - that this person caused a serious injury after a tiff and my sister might have been on M6 here at the same time. Fortunately - she was not - but she was only one half hour before this incident. I am naturally counting my blessings and thanking God on this one.

The boy is critical but his sister and father are in a more stable condition.



Bolton and Bury report very briefly on the Vectra family’s injuries - headlining with

Tributes to wrong way motorway crash man

Yeah - can understand as his family need support too. :( Not their fault he did this :( ) and can understand his estranged wife declaring he had a “heart of gold – would do anything for anybody and loved car boot sales and adored his sister and son. :roll:

But somehow – I cannot seem to reconcile this picture with someone who drives for 14 miles in each direction of a busy motorway at 70 mph minimum after a tiff with a lover. :x

Never know his true state of mind – but it reads “deliberate” to me :roll: :x

– and if his intent was suicide with some intention of making his partner feel guilty or sorry for the argument :x :x :x – I cannot feel any sorrow or pity for him. :x :x

I feel for all his victims and I count the estranged wife and the girlfriend as his victims as well given the rest of this rather sickening story. :(

Half hour earlier and my own sister could have easily been his victim. :x :x

Sorry Mrs B – cannot forgive your ex over this - whateve his state of mind at the time.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:56 
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Commander Jameson wrote:
Many people talk a lot of tosh that they heard down the pub about the motorway signalling system; they discuss messages and speed settings that I know cannot possibly ever have been set - a classic one is someone saying that they saw "70" set on a signal. No, it wasn't; type 421 and 450 lane signals physically cannot set 70 - the signal driver simply hasn't got the facility. Type 409 carriageway signals are similarly restricted.


You may "know" that, but I have seen MS1 signs flashing "70", a couple of times on the A1(M) near Newcastle. It was not a figment of my imagination, and I was not delusional.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 23:17 
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Roger wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Roger wrote:
The one CJ quoted - "Oncomiong Vehicle" is the least ambiguous, least distracting (at least insofar as eyes-to-the-sign is concerned), but possibly the most adrenaline-stirring too.


I suspect that's a deadly message. If I was the cop with my hand on the switch I don't suppose I'd EVER press it.


I would - if either I or a (trusted) colleague had seen it and confirmed the score. I wouldn't do it on the say so of Joe Soap.

I'm truly not sure how deadly "oncoming vehicle" is. It's not an easy one is it.

Setting aside the distraction factor of your message for the moment (ie let's assume in two or three well-chosen words we can convey the instruction "We have an emergency, park up now on the shoulder"). what will that do? All eyes will start looking left - away from front - to find gaps to get across. This is likely to be as deadly as rubber-necking I think - the one in front has braked while you're looking left. People will be overtaking to avoid rearending and generally positions will be swapping.

What does "Oncoming Vehicle" do? Make people scrub off speed, probably creating peristaltic waves of stop start traffc - a typical rush-hour phantom traffic jam, with only the ones in the front wondering what to do. On balance I still see that as the lesser bad of the two.

If text signs were used for this sort of thing (not sure, never seen it myself) they would only have to use the word "Spookrijder" in the Netherlands and everybody would know what was meant.

This link http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spookrijder is in Dutch, but says the following interesting points:
- average of about 75 serious reports of "spookrijders" per year
- average of 2 fatalities per year caused by "spookrijders"
- warnings given to public by interrupting radio broadcasts (I have heard these on many occasions)
- "Spookrijders" are liable to be fined at least 640 Euros and have to go to court


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 09:20 
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I would have thought STOP ALL LANES would have blocked the carriage way and would have reduced the risks to the energy of one car crashing into a stationary cars rather that head on collisions and further post accident collisions. It also would not have continued for 8 miles.

I also thought we used to have red flashing markers on the motorway signs to demonstrate that a lane should stop. I wonder what happened to them.

Also: in the age of cheap lcd screens and mobile picture messageing we could transmit a skull and crossbones

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 09:44 
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Roger wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Roger wrote:
The one CJ quoted - "Oncomiong Vehicle" is the least ambiguous, least distracting (at least insofar as eyes-to-the-sign is concerned), but possibly the most adrenaline-stirring too.


I suspect that's a deadly message. If I was the cop with my hand on the switch I don't suppose I'd EVER press it.


I would - if either I or a (trusted) colleague had seen it and confirmed the score. I wouldn't do it on the say so of Joe Soap.

I'm truly not sure how deadly "oncoming vehicle" is. It's not an easy one is it.


Not easy at all. I'd see 'oncoming vehicle' as a message likely to cause panic, and I see panic as deadly. And don't forget, if hundreds of drivers are going to see it, we have to consider the behaviour of the worst 10% - and that could easily be dozens of the buggers swerving about and panic braking.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:16 
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Perhaps slightly irreverent, but it gets the point across.

After a radio report of a driver heading against the flow of traffic, a concerned daughter calls her aged parents travelling to see her. "Mum, tell dad to be careful, there's a report of a maniac speeding up the wrong side of the motorway." (Mum) "What'dya mean ONE driver! There's dozens of them!"

On a more serious note. If the motorway 'red X' went on to close all lanes, I feel really sorry for the poor sods at the front if somebody is 'on a mission to their own destruction', but at least any following police wouldn't have to contend with oncoming traffic themselves & buy some extra distance to stop them in.
For the 'oops' joined via an exit road that seems to happen to the dottled geriatrics, confused overseas visitors & new passes/naughty learners, I think a 'wall' of stopped vehicles is less likely to introduce panic & give an opportunity to rectify the situation more than entering into a maze of staggered slow moving, tightly bunched vehicles. Just my tuppence worth.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:34 
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Assuming that the Police actually have more than 1 motorway patrol vehicle in the county, I would have thought that creating a road block of police vehicles would be the most effective method - any signs displayed will be ignored by the vast majority of drivers. The only way to stop a motorway is with a Police car. Would you want to be the one holding up hundreds of vehicles just because of a sign? Most people distrust the signs anyway, and there is more than a sight chance of you being attacked by the driver of a following vehicle because you are blocking his route.


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