Safe Speed Forums

I've driven many hundreds of motorway miles today in a vehicle with a top speed (on the flat) of about 70. I spent quite a while observing my own driving and I noticed something rather strange. At first I thought it was a bad habit, now I'm thinking it might be a good habit.

I had to make absolutely zillions of lane changes because I was going faster than the trucks, but only by about 10mph.

I would have thought that the correct sequence for a lane change was: Mirror, shoulder check, signal, manouver. But I found I was doing Mirror, signal, shoulder check, manouver. I have no idea where this 'change of plan' came from. I don't believe anyone has ever recommended it. I do believe that normally you should do your 'main observation' before you signal.

But now I'm thinking it's (quite possibly) a good idea. It makes the move shorter, which is especially good when you're trying to clear a path for someone else.

I do believe that the shoulder check (life saver for the bikers hereabouts) is a vital safety check, but on no occasion that I can remember (and certainly not today) was there an unexpected vehicle in the blind spot revealed by the shoulder check.

Now I'm thinking that the shoulder check doesn't really need to belong in 'main observation' and has a 'life of its own' as a final safety check.

So, which is best? Shoulder check before or after the signal? And why?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I prefer the Mirror, signal, shoulder check, manouver, or in vans with a second mirror replace shoulder check with lower mirror check -- removes any last minute doubt as to whether someone is sitting in your blind spot slightly behind door and has failed to see / be prepared to react to your manouver should you not spot them .I find it amazing how many people will sit just outside you with you indicating, saying "please i'd like to overtake this vehicle in front, either slow down and let me in or speed up and pass me"Sometimes the only alternative is to slow down , let them pass and then move over, and if you're driving a deisel van that makes for a long overtake.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Aha welcome to my world . My own vehicle is not all that powerful, although it will easily top 70 acceleration is poor. Moving faster than the trucks and general traffic, but slower than the sales reps ( ) I find I have to plan maneouvres extremely carefully, I cannot rely on the power of my car to get me up to the speed of the traffic in the lane to which I'm moving.
I keep a constant picture of what is behind me, particualrly vehicles that are closing in a lane to which I wish to move. I then signal my intent, this I see as more of a request, if I do it early enough I'll more often than not receive a quick flash of headlights. A final shoulder check to make sure nobody has snuck up on me, and I move.
So I signal then shoulder check as a final confirmation.

Not sure whether it comes from my days as a motorcyclist, but I've always felt a lot more secure making a final observation check of a space I'm about to move into immediately before I commit to moving into it.

I also think that there's not too much wrong with the indicator as a request to move out, as long as you don't take the piss. In other words it's ok to say "look, this is the most promising gap I've seen for five minutes, can I use it?", but not to say "I'm coming into your braking gap at half your speed, you might need to deploy that drogue" as so many seem to do.

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Now strange you say that , JT- i feel its a hangover from my cycling days to make sure that there's nothing in the gap


like wise - now find that it pays to do it when in problems with short gaps on L1 when trying to get off motorway - pass HGV in L2, indicate left and wait for his approval - 99.9% of time he'll see what you're doing, slack off and flash you in

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes, put the indicator on first, before you look over your shoulder. Your signal will stop someone in L3 pulling back into L2 and straight into your blind spot.

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“For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.” - H. L. Mencken

Interesting. So we're all doing it? Isn't that remarkable? I find it remarkable because I don't ever remember trying to decide where the shoulder check fitted into the sequence.

Is it written down anywhere? What does Motorcycle Roadcraft have to say? I'm pretty sure it isn't in Roadcraft. (My copies are at home, which is many hundreds of miles away.)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I haven't thought it through before but in doing so, it seems to me that the following is the both the natural and correct sequence.

1. Main observation indicates need to change lane. Use rear mirror and wing/door mirrors (also part of main observation) to check/confirm rear picture

2. Signal

3. Shoulder check to verify main observation

4. Manoeuvre

Yes, that is absolutely how I do it too. I agree the shoulder check is needed and should be done as late as possible before beginning the manouvre. When in the past I have omitted it or done it earlier, I have occasionaly been caught out by a car moving from lane 3 to lane 2.

When I hse mthe motorcaravan on the motorways I too will be doing around 70, faster than the lorries but slower than most cars. As you say you need to do a lot of lane changing.

I definately leave it 'till last, just in case someone has gone from L3 to L2. I'm sure it's perfectily possible that someone could have pulled into L2 in the time it takes to signal and then pull out. A signal will mean they will probably change their mind on the lane change and stay in L3, and a shoulder check will confirm this and give confidence to move into L2. Of course if I was in the car in L3 I'd be checking to see how fast vehicles in L1 were catching each other and to see if any were likely to want to use L2, and therefore I would re-consider whether a move to L2 would be wise.

Surely you would leave it till last because it's a blind spot check? If you look over your shoulder, then signal, wait a second and move over, someone could have got into the blind spot!

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Chris
www.chrishillcoat.net

Yes, I do it exactly the same as everyone else who has commented - when you're doing a lot of driving on crowded motorways it becomes second nature.

I suspect you may have been doing it automatically anyway, Paul, but never really thought about it until you came to be driving the van.

Unfortunately, a lot of other drivers don't seem to bother with either indicating or shoulder checks - you have to spot their intentions from their body language

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

That's also what I think.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Motorcyclists are taught OSM/PSL. That's mirror, signal, shoulder check, manouvre to you.

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In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

It sounds like you need a nitros kit for christmas

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