Safe Speed Forums

Nothing on your list is adequate to explain endemic speeding. I'm sure all those reasons have existed from time to time.

We have to look a little deeper into driver behaviour. See the first post in this thread and examine the information on page: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/why.html

You might just find that there's much more to it than you realised.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ummm, no. "Welcome to the forum" means "Welcome to the forum"

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Like Peter E has said, many people have clean licences but still oppose cameras. I have never had any points of any sort on my licence(covered about 200 000 miles ish) and would like to think I have a lot of respect for the police. If I want to have fun and push a vehicle to it's limits I can, and have been to a racetrack. Many people including myself are not here because we feel cameras are restricting our fun, but that they are bad for road safety.

To be fair, Basingwerk...sorry Witchescat, you have hit the ground running somewhat, so you must expect replies other than "Hi, welcome, thanks for pointing out the flaws in the Safespeed standpoint"

However, debate is ALWAYS a good thing, and I think some of your points I have read are valid.

I think there is a gulf between speeding and being caught speeding, which is down partly to luck and partly down to paying attention.

I think that capitalising "FUN" in your original list and including it four times may have lead folks into assuming that you were just trolling. I certainly did. If however, you're up for some serious debate I think you'll find that the prime concern amongst the majority of posters here is "road safety" - in a considerably less-simplistic sense than just the cretinous mantra "speed kills".

_________________
"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Safespeed
I did read the link and at your bidding I re-read it again.
I have not changed my opinion of 'average driver'.
I believe you are wrong and that all but a tiny minority of drivers are crap and will remain so forever. Including all of us probably. Thats an opinion.
We do not pay attention mostly, we rarely assess risk, we do not drive at a speed fit for the conditions, most of us could not describe the conditions if asked because we haven't thought about them conciously or otherwise. When was the last time anybody you know checked tyre pressures, I mean for real. People don't give a crap.
We are driving at a speed at which we have become accustomed through habit that is only restrained by the fact that to pass the test in the first place required us to drive relatively slowly. That and the fact it was quite difficult to even drive slowly.
I think you credit the average driver with far to much skill or at least with using it enough.
Drivers are crap.
In my opinion you focus to much on 'the' driver and 'his' speed. You can assess as much as you want and display as much car control skill as you like but if it's a 50 and a driver in the distance doesn't know you are Carlos Fandango behind the wheel doing 150mph you are both bolloxed. To hell with you but what about him?
Speed limits are pain but it creates reasonable expectation in others. The reasonable expectation being that you are doing roughly the speed limit.

I don't like speed camaras, limits or restrictions. I believe I know better than the law how fast my Fireblade will corner in any given situation in any conditions. I also know that the lower the limit the safer I am because there is less chance of one of you morons in tin boxes driving like a dick:lol: ( no thats wasn't serious )

Basically I disagree with you. If people stuck to the limits, payed more attention, used more skill we'd all be okay.
People are stupid, the only way to make roads safer is to restrict speed with an iron fist.
I hate it, you hate it, we both know it, you can't admit it.








Apparently not otherwise you wouldn't make stupid accusations ( who the f**k is Basinwerk ) or smartarsed comments.

Always worth READING THE THREAD before posting

So there's plenty of room for improvement then.

Is present policy making drivers better or worse?

If it's making them worse, then it's the wrong policy.

TRL says drivers are getting worse and that's why fatalities haven't fallen as expected.

I'm absolutely certain that policy is making drivers worse.

If you wish to be welcome here, you'll need to dump the attitude.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I asked WHO he was not what he wrote.

What are you reading?
You are like a dog with a bone, drop it!
There is no attitude here.
Should I put more smileys in or what
Go back and read all my posts and whilst doing so try to imagine that I'm NOT clubbing baby seals with one hand, typing with the other whilst stamping on some kittens.

Jesus, who died and made me Lucifer

Lighten up fella's.

No, no don't tell me, you all just got summonsed, car got towed, cam belt let go what? Or are YOU all miserable sods so you assume everybody else is?

Speak for yourself! I know how my BlackBird will handle too!


Again, speak for yourself! Don't judge us by your own low standards!


Again, I would encourage you to read the whole of this thread.

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I think there ist only one feline on this forum who swallow the furball the wrong way...or perhaps got tail und whiskers caught in the cauldron

You are one black, one eyed cat who seem to have got sour milk instead of the fish in the creamy sauce!



Und we use the smileys appropriately despite what Riggers thinks und we have upped them as family beyond the tree of us posting on here und self on PH und Krissi on a cycling forum - her Tame Cat character may have got lycra in a sweat last year - but she still aces 'em over on occasion under old established ID have challenged us to write a post in which we use [i] all [//i] of them! ist tall order

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Sure, you are entitled to your opinion.
But, if we are all (i.e. all 28 million or so of us) such crap drivers, how come we aren't wiping ourselves or each other out at a phenomenal rate? Surely we must be doing something right out there?

Oh god will it ever end?

What, Basinwerk gets banned so you pick somebody else to have a pop at?



er, righto, good point. (:shhh: I won't tell him if you don't)


[
nnaaaa nnaaaa na nnaaaa nnaaaaa
Grow up son.



I have and most of it is off topic.

The thread is entitled 'Why people speed'
Not 'Flame anybody who doesn't think I'm Michael Schumacher in a Vauxhall Astra'.

People are poor drivers in the majority. The laws are not applied rigorously enough nor the punishments harsh enough therefore people don't feel they have anything to gain by obeying them. That and the fact most of them are daydreaming about winning the lottery or shagging Kylie. That is why people speed, well mostly anyway.

Right, flame away again I off down the pub ( walking )

You say all but a few elite drivers are useless/crap. Speak for yourself matey and don't tar me with your brush! I'm no "Damon Hill or Richard Burns" (sadly missed), but I can do more with my vehicle than go backwards & forwards and turn a corner. I know MY limits & those of my car through experience and I NEVER have an "OH S**T!" moment, ever. (OK,once when I was nearly rear ended) I'm constantly watching in front, scanning ahead, sides, rear & checking vehicle status. [what I and many other driver / posters on this forum DO object to is having to spend excessive amounts of time checking a number on our speedo instead of driving safely through the environment we're currently in] So don't EVER assume that I'm some dopey F WIT to enable you to embelish your post with your dosey opinions. Grrrrrr!



I check pressures in my car tyres every two weeks and my works van every week, including tread, wear & condition.



WE (the regular posters & longterm members) are here because we DO care, and have a voice to be heard.



Passing your test is a bare minimum requirement to be allowed to drive solo. 'Difficulty' has nothing to do with it - at any speed. Driver skill, either learned or natural ability is an ongoing process - FOR THOSE OF US WHO CARE - even the muppets with limited skills have improved in some areas since their tests. Hell, I breezed my lessons & test. My instructor thought I was lying that I hadn't driven before.



That's what the word AVERAGE is there for - 50% of drivers will be below it. And those at the bottom level will be truly shocking & dangerous. Those in the upper levels will range from adequate to superb. WE ONLY NOTICE THE BAD ONES......therefore it appears there are excessive numbers of ejits on the roads. Honestly, when was the last time you remembered a good driver?



Again, speak for yourself! And what's with the "WE / US"! I don't want to be included in YOUR generalisations.

Er, no. You will eventually give up though (I did), because the arguments laid out here are generally robust trust me.

As a biker myself I am only too aware of how bad some drivers can be at seeing us. I particularly dislike approaching someone sat at a junction obviously bursting to pull out. They see a gap to the next car back up the road only in their haste to get going fail to see you/me in between
I got smidsy'd many years ago by some geezer in a van; clipped my back wheel he did and sent me down the road. The adrenilin rush was bloody amazing, I picked myself up and went after the guy like a shot. He was 6'3" I'm only 5'8" - fortunately my mate who was behind me managed to calm me down

Really???:shock:


Ummmm no? Totally clean licence here pal.

Errr no.



Hmmmm sad.

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Perhaps, just perhaps, looking on as an outsider --


The time has come for :-

1) Witchescat -to stop shouting and listen - e.g. pal, look at IG posts on COAST , other drivers on here who have more years on the road (and less ponts than you ) ( me, about 1-2 Million miles, no points speeding,I don't claim to know it all, i'll gladly listen to someone like IG -IT MIGHT SAVE MY LIFE SOME DAY)
2) The wolfpack , out for blood -another new recruit ( not a troll) to spread the message is worth a lot - he takes on board some important messages , and might pass them on, with the source .Give him ideas to change his driving - to make him a better driver .
Lets convert, and leave the SCP to batter the rest into submission - at least we know we occupy the moral high ground.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

OK mein Lieber Hexenkater!

Shall refer to notes from the three reps at my firm who got invite to speed aware course in Lancs for overspeeds. One was pinged by the talivan which hit headlines in October 2003 .. The one with the white Hertz Rentavan und officer was hiding under a blanket at time - so I have no idea how he judged the speed :bangehad und this guy was clocked at truly dangerous speed of 34 mph on an empty road Und at about same time - also in Lancs - his colleague rushed past a Gatos (new ) hidden behind a bus stop on dual carriageway which was once und was reduced to und not urban or built up ... und he trigged it at 34 mph also per the NIP und the other one was over by just 5 mph und also got invited to course... These were all IAM drivers as our firm does insist on toppest qualifications for all who work there


Well - I posted on the thread relating to Lancs COAST course on here as colleague passed his copy to us - but we may be toppest drivers und scientists in htis this household - but we had to get forum help to get image on here. Thank you Ern again

Well - posted their reports on the course – which started apparently with warm up session on this very topic – only according to all three employees bei uns – all were pinged at 33-35 mph – ttis was 2003 und cut off was 34/35 mph und they apparently had to make the course viable by getting bums on seats. For record all our guys praised the course in content matter und delivery – but like rest of the party revellers – were not so impressed as to how they got the invite as it rather undermines the initiative.


So let’s look at each of your points.



General take of all 34 brigaders ist anger und resentment und in Lancs at 34 mph trigs – you can lose a licence very very quickly. Und then there are those copped as they approach a higher limit und are prosecuted for “racing for 10 yards towards the speed change” und then M4 – only those who sought to challenge discovered that they were pinged incorrectly: the 50 mph Gatso was pinging legal drivers – but South Wales prats were not concerned with honourable practice und grudgingly refunded und cleansed licences when furious drivers notified them. They did not go public – und they should have done.

My cousin was one of lawyers involved in getting motorists off hook at time. He’s a right fire cracker und even sub marinated ones took notice of him when he decided to lay depth charges!



OTT speeders – usually joy riders - My cousin ist IG the BiB on here – und not the only in family.


Ist silly – we all agree - und no one on this board would dream of wide margin differential in urban areas und most of us are probably bubbling under margin of 10% + 2 …




Majority on this site see COAST as good thing und we are delighted people are passing it on

– Ernest has designed the key fobs und Ian und IG hand them out! Triple Liebchen, Ian und Observer have given plug on other sites as well. Und this family ist large – we have various family felines passing on the message as constant.


Perhaps you could tell us how YOU use C O A S T in your driving.




I think you may find that drunken drivers – unless absolutely blotto – do not speed their accident are down to inability to risk assess properly as brain cannot calculate distance und the drink really slow the reaction time - und low speed impact ist just as deadly as a high one in many cases.

Ist on increase und all motoring organisations apart form BRAKE und T2 K accept that this has more to do with LESS traf than ever before in our history.

You have not thought through your list logically Liebchen. True felines do so!

Und by the way - all Swiss felines und relatives have crystal clean driving licences und take driving seriously as pleasure to savour

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Eh?


Excellent! Well thought-out argument.

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus