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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:13 
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Witchescat wrote:
I also know that the lower the limit the safer I am because there is less chance of one of you morons in tin boxes driving like a dick:lol: ( no thats wasn't serious )

Ummmm I'm a biker. :loco:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:27 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Tried to help - i give up

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:28 
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Tried to help as my youngest daughter ( a driver) is also a rear seat biker and i understand the problems. - i give up

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:32 
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Oops just read Witchescat's postings.....more attitude than B.A. Baracas!

I can assure you all its not indicative of the Swindon population.

Take a chill pill, read some of the subjects on here first and then make your comments.

Your initial postings did read rather "aggressively". Maybe think first before committing to the ether.....


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:35 
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BottyBurp wrote:
Ummmm I'm a biker.

Me too. Clean licence. Part time motorcycle instructor.

Witchescat, you've come in here with some pretty inflammatory remarks; the sentiment contained therein appears to be that if we think speed cameras are wrong then we all want to do warp 10 past the local primary school at chucking out time while reading a book, fixing our hair and chatting on the phone. (If I've picked you up wrongly I apologise)

Nothing could be further from the truth. If you take the time to read the forums I think you'll find that in fact we all share common ground.

You believe the roads would be safer if drivers were better. Yes?
You believe many drivers don't pay attention to what they are doing. Yes?

The main difference between your viewpoint and the prevalent view here appears to be that you think there's nothing that can be done to improve the situation. You've admitted defeat so you feel we should resort to making people crash slower instead of teaching them not to crash at all? Is that a fair assessment? I'm getting that from here
witchescat wrote:
If people stuck to the limits, payed more attention, used more skill we'd all be okay.
People are stupid, the only way to make roads safer is to restrict speed with an iron fist.
I hate it, you hate it, we both know it, you can't admit it.

What about if we removed the first part and the, I think, unwarranted slur on the entire population of the UK?
Quote:
If people <snip> payed more attention, used more skill we'd all be okay.

So now we get to the SafeSpeed philosophy.

Give people the right road safety messages.
Encourage people to take a pride in their driving with incentives to take advanced training and improve their skills - more carrot, less stick.
Have an effective Police Force (sorry, I mean Service :roll: ) stopping and educating drivers when they do it wrong.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:35 
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Scamper wrote:
Oops just read Witchescat's postings.....more attitude than B.A. Baracas!

Take a chill pill, read some of the subjects on here first and then make your comments.

Your initial postings did read rather "aggressively". Maybe think first before committing to the ether.....


My reading of the situation - perhaps heart got in before head??

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:36 
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Witchescat wrote:
Oh god will it ever end?

What, Basinwerk gets banned so you pick somebody else to have a pop at?


Well - :scratcchin: - at least he did make his points more rationally. As I read it - he made a rather silly comment about message we give our young. My husband has said it all already anyway - in that past threads have looked at how we can get a safety message across to young full hot heads. Basingmate should have retracted or given it had already been used in quote button - made an apology as comment made in a white heat of anger flash moment instead of post he subsequently made. I still think he ist worth reinstating as think he will think a bit more before posting in anger - und agree with Ted - if he reply in such anger on a forum then he can drive as slowly as he wants to - he will still have accident as there really ist no place for anger on road. :roll:

Quote:
Quote:
Witchescat wrote:
[...]and that all but a tiny minority of drivers are crap and will remain so forever. Including all of us probably

Speak for yourself! I know how my BlackBird will handle too!


er, righto, good point. (:shhh: I won't tell him if you don't)

Quote:
Again, speak for yourself! Don't judge us by your own low standards!

[
nnaaaa nnaaaa na nnaaaa nnaaaaa
Grow up son.


I would suggest you do so then! :roll:

Quote:
Quote:
Again, I would encourage you to read the whole of this thread.


I have and most of it is off topic.

The thread is entitled 'Why people speed'
Not 'Flame anybody who doesn't think I'm Michael Schumacher in a Vauxhall Astra'.


You proven in that last sentence that you have not read any thread on this site - or if you have then you have a poor comprehension skills und thus cannot risk assess or read situation properly - und please - if this ist so - stay away from Cumbria as I value the lives of my friends up here - und I am also sure Steviebabes does not want any more blip on figures. :roll:

Quote:
People are poor drivers in the majority. The laws are not applied rigorously enough nor the punishments harsh enough therefore people don't feel they have anything to gain by obeying them.


Perhaps you should come to Lancs und just drive around. I am sure you will feel that the laws are applied far too rigourously - und it seem that Darling agree that scams are waste of time. He say soem road go to 20 mph und even plans to raise limits on some! :wink: He has been reading this site then :hehe: :wink:


That and the fact most of them are daydreaming about winning the lottery or shagging Kylie. That is why people speed, well mostly anyway.[/quote]

I earn und enjoy earning enough cash und cannot think how lottery would change my life anyway - und I am full blooded thinking man's woman - und but am completely married und still madly in love with my husband. We do not need to dream about sex - we well :wink: :wink: satisfy each other und have the kittens to prove it :P
cat with whisker in cauldron wrote:
Right, flame away again I off down the pub ( walking )


Well -do not get so drunk that you step off pavement :wink: :roll: Drunken pedestrians also casue accidents per government stats :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 22:49 
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"WHY DO DRIVERS SPEED" -- We find a long straight, we see no cameras, so we drive to the other end, obeying the numeric speed limit, looking out for scamras.We see none - we turn round , the road is clear - nothing to cause problems and we floor it - we enjoy the sensation of being able to drive at a speed "we se that it is safe to drive at"
WHY ---???

Because for too long the "you can't do that " brigade have told us that we cant do that.
They told Mr Columbus that sailing to the end of the horizion was dangerous " - " you'll fall of the end of the world , they said" - instead he discovered the Americas.

Now, isn't there a moral in that story???

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 00:58 
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My wife Wildy :neko: has already replied and as I happen to agree with much of her post - not going to add further to that. :wink:

Now both my wife and I are ex-BRAKE members. In fact - we were in at the start as Mary set up the charity because her mother was killed by a lorry with faulty brakes. We lost one of ours due to a lorry with defective everything and the guy ( a much liked and respected young father both in this country and his own homeland) was killed at low speed impact. Lightning struck again in this family soon afterwards when someone was taken ill behind the wheel of his car and nearly took out the WildCat herself. But then - we accept the incidents were freak occurrences and do not hold everyone else who drives a motorised vehicle responsible. :roll:

Now I suggest you look at the "Improve Your Driving and Cycling" forums where IanH, IG, Stephen, Man, Neil, and many other BiB who have posted to this site have given sound safety advice and have full respect from practically everyone posting to this site. That speaks volumes about the attitude of the average poster on this site - and none of us are suggesting dangerous or inconsiderate behaviour - but rather a return to justice and equity for all. :wink:

Quote:
Witchescat wrote:
I have had car and bike licences for exactly twenty years.


Am pushing er - OK so I'm 46 and a bit :lol: and drove on private land for a while before passing my driving test aged 17 years and about 7 weeks. My birthday falls in the summer and my school forbade time off for driving tests so... was really a case of pass before September start or chance half termly hols.... Was lucky - got a cancellation and passed it first go. :bow: After that A levels and Uni course beckoned but managed to squeeze in my IAM before my clinical training started (am medic ....) and since then done RoSPA and other courses as matter of pride and desire to achieve best of my potential - I suppose. :wink:

Motoring Qualificationwise - most on this site can match by similar and experience - and some can better me - the BiBs and most certainly IG! :roll: :roll: :roll:

(He happens to be my wife's cousin - we know him well. :yikes:)

cat in a right tizzy wrote:
I have been fined for speeding 3 times, all fixed penalty VASCAR( last one in 94 ). I'm guessing at around 350,000 miles in cars, vans ect and about 100,000 miles on bikes.
How much longer do you want me to consider my opinions?



Ah- but back in 94 things were nowhere near as daft as they have since become. Perhaps you were well above the 10% plus 2 as that was as I understand that to have been more normal practice and base this on what IG and his brothers and sister (all BiB) and his retired father (a Super in traffic during his career) tell me. :wink:

cat getting into a bit of a tizzy for no real reason wrote:
I think it is you who have not thought this through or you misunderstand my post.


I think you are getting your claws out for no good reason :wink: and tapping your tail in temper here :wink:

cat getting into a tizzy wrote:
The question asked by the thread is WHY. I gave a list, what on that list do you not agree with?
You may have others to add but do you absolutely reject any I gave?
Do you speak for all drivers or just yourself in which case do you have special circumstances you would like to explain?
Was it the comment about not paying attention that irked you? Are you seriously suggesting that people are deliberatly driving through speed traps out of bloody mindedness?
I they don't see the camara then how can they claim to be paying attention?


People are getting pinged for very nit picking speeds these days. The fixed scams may be yellow - but they are placed on cambers, at spots where other road furniture takes the attention and the driver is at a safe and low speed but gets pinged at 34 mph because he did not pick up or discern the slight and gradual pull on a slight gradients or polished road. It can be as innocent as that. We know people who have attended the Lancs course because of this. :roll:

Also - scams placed behind bus stops, direction signs, and we found some well hidden in an underpass on the A2 direction Kent out of London once. :roll:

Then there are the mobiles near a speed limit change :roll:

These measures ping the safe blipper who actually believes (s) he's within the speed limit and gets one heck of a shock 14 days later - and guess what (s) he did not kill anyone before, during or even after all this :roll:

cat getting into a tizz wrote:
Let me sweeten the pill for you and confirm that ( apart from the drunkeness ) all the traits in the list I posted are ones which I am also guilty of, and so are YOU.


Nope..completely innocent mate! :wink: Never been copped braking any laws either - so far :wink:

.Speak for Wildy :neko: and self mainly but also reckon Riggers and rest of the gang also drive apply C O A S T. Best lifesaving message there is - shame it don;t make any cash though! :roll:

cat getting into a bit of a froth wrote:
The thread is titled 'Why people speed'.
What are you not getting ? Perhaps I am missing something here.
Is there a hidden question or meaning or does it in fact simply ask the question 'Why people speed'
Why the smarmy replies?
If the post title means something completely differant to you then perhaps 'Welcome to the forum' really means' go to hell!


You really are one touchy cat! :wink: Why not take a quick browse through any one IG post, Gatsobait post, Riggers post amongst many others. :bow:

I think you may find you will need to offer us and our Paulie your Christmas stock of Whisker's Finest and double cream :wink: by way of apology :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 09:59 
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Witchescat wrote:
I have had car and bike licences for exactly twenty years.
I have been fined for speeding 3 times, all fixed penalty VASCAR( last one in 94 ). I'm guessing at around 350,000 miles in cars, vans ect and about 100,000 miles on bikes.

You are not doing that well then are you? :lol:
I have had car & bike entitlement for 23 years, have covered well over half a million miles, and not one SP30 in sight.

Quote:
all the traits in the list I posted are ones which I am also guilty of, and so are YOU.

As has already been said, don't judge others by your own standards.
I "speed" when the conditions permit in order to make progress.
By the same token, I also know when it is not safe to be anywhere near the 30 limit in built up areas (eg, outside the school when I am picking the kids up).
I (like many others no doubt) would much prefer to be able to keep my eyes & grey matter on the road at all times, alas that is not possible these days because (apart from concentrating on all the normal hazards out there) I also have to now concentrate on my speedo & also be on the lookout for hidden cameras at the same time.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:21 
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Where's Witchescat gone?

He/she was really funny!

Do you think they woke up after a night's ranting with a really bad hangover, as it was all a bit "drunk-bloke-in-a-strop"....


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:32 
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Probably fell off the broomstick on the way back from the pub.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:14 
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Brookwood wrote:
Probably fell off the broomstick on the way back from the pub.


...and then got in a fight with it :P


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 21:48 
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To basingwerk - if reading or lurking ..

Saddened to read your outburst and I'd like to believe ypu rgre losing your rag like that. Always thoughtyou amusing most of the time and you did agree that traffic police are not dinosaurs but worthy beings who should never be replaced at one point.

I can accept some of your vitriol stemmed from the young driver who nearly killed you per one of your posts on here when the forum was in infancy. But this was one idiot on the road and 32 million drivers are not behaving like this minority. I am thankful and grateful that most of us know the score and know how to behave ourselves - else my job would be one "fire fighting and unenjoyable slog" Believe it or not - most of my colleagues do not like arresting people and depriving them of their freedom or contents of their bank account. :shock:

We like to think we offer value for money service and provide exactly what a modern and civilised society expects - and this does not involve nit picking over trivialities either. :wink:

I am sure Paul would reinstate if you contact him and negotiate some boundaries of respect with him.

We all accept you approve of cameras and we all accept there is something in your personal experience which has formed your opinion - but I have noted some self doubts in your postings and some respect given to both myself and Ted inthe past. I agree Vrenchen is one boisterous young lady - but given what happened to her - sure you agree she's entitled to getting up to some mischief :roll: :twisted: :lol: 8-)

So - if you lurk mate - kind thoughts and I wish you all the best for Christmas and the New Year. Please apply C O A S T throughout the rest of your life. I'd like to think you learned something from this site anyway :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 22:06 
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Witchescat wrote:
Why not just admit it,
you all get caught speeding and lose your rags because deep down you know damn well that you weren't paying a blind bit of attention and you feel like a prat.

WHY PEOPLE SPEED

Stupidity
Lack of attention
FUN
Arrogance ( thinking ability to pay equals ability to play )
Bad timing
Frustration
FUN
Selfishness
Drunkeness
FUN
Irresponsibility
Poor time management
FUN

:roll:


Witchescat - I really cannot add any more than Wildy and MM to you. I happen to agree with them. 8-) :)

You describe the hard core we deal with all he time. The majority though - not like that and I respect my fellow citizens and their abilities. Few cause us problems -even if they blip by a tadge over - and in my patch - we are firm believers in fairness, professional judgement - and maintaining respect and good relations with the people who help us do our job and pay us for it as well :wink:

A lot of police officers - including CC Todd of Manchester, CC Cannings , CC Garvin and a number of retired senior policemen are concerned at the negative attitude towards police in the areas where speed cameras appear to dominate.

We need public support. We need people to tell us which roads have become dangerous to them so that we can take some positive action without accusation of collecting "stealth taxes" I can asure you that Dirham and N Yorks do issue fines and penalties for bad driving - same as we do for bad biking and careless cycling. :wink:

From the grapevine and CC Gavin, CC Cannins and CC Todd's own words as quoted in a number of newspapers - the partnerships are undermining public relations.

The recent announcement that fine cash will not allow prats to invest in more cameras is a step in the right direction :wink: and we should hope that increased trafpol numbers prevail instead of :wink: humps :roll:

So -:bib: do a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. I have really tieid hard and I fail continously to find a similar comemnt to pass about recent trends in road safety :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:52 
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to WitchesCat ...

as to the Basingwerk reference, don't worry, everyone who expresses a view that speed cameras are not evil incarnate at some point will be accused of being him/her. I certainly was, then was accused of being part of a safety [sic] camera partnership! If you are really lucky you will then be subject to attacks on the person!

Stay on the site, the safe driving messages are important and it's fun sometimes just to throw in the odd comment that may make some of the acolytes think a little?

Quoting myself [arrogance] (there's nothing else worth quoting on this thread) [/tongue in cheek arrogance]
handy wrote:
Why Drivers Speed?

My vastly simplistic view is this:

Because they don't place sufficient value (likelihood or impact) on the risks inherent in exceeding the posted speed limit.

Those risks include being penalised for exceeding the posted speed limit (fact) and reduction in safety (much debated opinion).

I wonder what the response would be on a separate thread "Why some drivers don't speed" although to avoid being torn hopelessly off topic it would have to be titled "Why some drivers make more efforts than others to not break the posted speed limit".


I'm surprised that no-one felt it necessary to comment on the position that the reason drivers speed (Speeded? Sped?) is "because they want to"

(Unless Wildy Cat posted something but as I find his/her brand of euro-English unpleasant to read I skip those posts)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:01 
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I have read all the posts on here and have resisted the temptation to join in until some of it calmed down a bit and I was sure what I wanted to say.

The reason I speed is because I tend to treat speed limit signs as hazard warning signs. An indication that travelling too fast won't give me time to take avoiding action.

The problem is the speed limits are blanket and tend to cover areas where they aren't strictly necessary but would be too confusing to keep changing them.

Speed limits also don't take into account density of traffic or pedestrians.

I don't deliberately set out to break speed limits, I like to think I assess each individual situation and drive accordingly.

I did once try religiously not exceeding the 30mph in our town. I found I had to aim for about 26-27 mph to ensure I didn't go over the limit while I wasn't watching the speedo. That upset following drivers and I think I caused more danger than I saved because of the bunching it created.

Now I tend to aim for 30 in the knowledge that my car stops a lot quicker than when the speed limit was first imposed and roads for the most part are a lot safer as we have learnt more about what causes accidents.

I don't suggest for one minute the above is the answer to the question but I hope it contributes something to the discussion.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:28 
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If by speeding we mean exceeding the posted limit as opposed to exceeding a safe speed, then here is Suffolk at least part of the reason people speed is Suffolk County Council's speed limit policy.

When they first suggested that they would introduce 30mph limits in all villages most people (including me) thought it was a reasonable idea - after all legally doing 60mph in the middle of a village is crazy. The trouble is they used a very loose definition of village so that in some cases the limits stretch right out to the parish boundaries in open countryside. There are also hamlets of a few houses on otherwise open stretches of road where a higher limit would be more appropriate.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 13:21 
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You'll find Worcestershire has done the same. Busting the speed limit there is easy as pie. Not that the cops waste much time enforcing them.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 01:43 
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handy wrote:
to WitchesCat ...

as to the Basingwerk reference, don't worry, everyone who expresses a view that speed cameras are not evil incarnate at some point will be accused of being him/her. I certainly was, then was accused of being part of a safety [sic] camera partnership! If you are really lucky you will then be subject to attacks on the person!


Oh - we were playing with you when we called you Andy Pandy :twisted:

handyandypandy wrote:
Stay on the site, the safe driving messages are important and it's fun sometimes just to throw in the odd comment that may make some of the acolytes think a little?


I am pleased you find the safety led input worthwhile - we go for dangerous twazaks in the main! :wink:

Quote:
Quoting myself [arrogance] (there's nothing else worth quoting on this thread) [/tongue in cheek arrogance]


Hmmmmmm!

Quote:
handy wrote:
Why Drivers Speed?

My vastly simplistic view is this:

Because they don't place sufficient value (likelihood or impact) on the risks inherent in exceeding the posted speed limit.

Those risks include being penalised for exceeding the posted speed limit (fact) and reduction in safety (much debated opinion).

I wonder what the response would be on a separate thread "Why some drivers don't speed" although to avoid being torn hopelessly off topic it would have to be titled "Why some drivers make more efforts than others to not break the posted speed limit".


Few drive under the limit - all drive a touch above and they fluctuatein speeds over any one drive or bike ride even :wink: . To prosecute for each discrepancy would be splitting hairs

Quote:
I'm surprised that no-one felt it necessary to comment on the position that the reason drivers speed (Speeded? Sped?) is "because they want to"

(Unless Wildy Cat posted something but as I find his/her brand of euro-English unpleasant to read I skip those posts)


She did - I think :wink: She's my cousin - not biased - but she's a really decent driver and a very nice lady . But we've never found out why she can speak, read and write perfect High German, French, Italian and Spanish and yet despite having an Yorkshire lass for a mother speaks English with a heavy nasal Appenzeller twang :roll: and spells some words exactly how she says them! :roll: She was like this at school - and it got ironed out - but she regressed back to this after the rather unfortunate incident! :roll:

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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