Safe Speed Forums

Wth ever safer vehicles, improved hospital treatment and harder driving tests why are deaths not falling as they used pre 1990s?

What the factors that could be contributing to this situation?

My suggestions: lack of traffic police leading to illegal driving and lack of good example being set.

Cheap cars leading to those from lower socio-economic backgrounds who tend to be less well educated and more inclined to not follow rules and regulations regarding safety/driving being on the road.

Immigration from other cultures who don't have the same safety priorities and are more likely to be illegal drivers (this is an assumption - is there any data to back it up? )

Over emphasis on conforming to speed limits rather than driving safety and at an appropriate speed for the current conditions.

People being unable to afford to live where they work so longer commuting distances leading to greater time spent on the roads and a greater likelihood of drivers driving tired. Less job security so people have to commute rather than move everytime they change jobs.

Drink driving/drugged driving increasing due to lack of traffic police to stop them.

I would certainly think so. We seem to have a crop - und no idea if they are visitors to area or not - but they appear to have taken to driving on wrong side of road for some reason. Und have lost count now of number of cyclists comong up here dressed in dark clothes, no lights und most difficult to see on rural unlit roads.



I would think this ist also a case. Mad Doc's sister was witness to some rather untoward behaviour some time ago - und police did take statement from her - he was flashing in his car in car park - und we are not talking headlamps either.

guy they arrested had history of mental illness und was driving a car

How many of these mentally ill are on road then?



I would imagine MIB would be one place to seek FOI on this?

But not one day go by where all papers from tabloid to broadsheet report on illegal driver from overseas who kills - remember the lad on New Year's Day 2004?



Single focus und not enough COAST advice give to correct the bad driving. All those driving on wrong side of road - cannot say they are speeding - just oblivious to oncoming traffic.



Und cost of the move given outrageous price of property does affect choice when it come to weigh up commute costs against move costs. Also we have practice where people will move to catchment area of decent school - und then the good school begin to fail because itg cannot cope with huger class sizes und good teachers burn out und leave because of pressure ....




Und we only have blitz at Christmas too. Should be on ball 24/365

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Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

A few that spring to mind...

Development of a "Panzer" mentality amongst those driving big, heavy and relatively crash-resistant vehicles? I know that some years ago Volvo toned-down the "safety in a crash" thrust of their advertising as the number of shunts that Volvos were having was increasing at a greater rate than their sales... Also they became the No 1 obliterator of motorcyclists during the same time. Stopping advertising the feeling of invincibility for Volvo drivers appeared to have improved their stats.

More people seem to be under time-pressure, exacerbated by increased congestion (often caused by well-meaning councils in the guise of "traffic calming"), leading them to "push it" too much.

Personal observation - young women in "hot hatch" cars seem to be becoming incredibly aggressive in their driving. It used to be the preserve of the male of the species, but the "target population" seems to be much bigger than it used to be.

Pure "Me Me Me" bloody-minded selfishness and total lack of consideration for anyone other than #1.

The dramatic reduction of police patrols on the road is making the above sort of behaviour less and less likely to be apprehended.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

Whilst this is true to anyone with eyes to see, can anyone point at figures which show the actual reduction in trafpol over a period across the country (or even by force)?

Yep, thats Telford. Went to the cinema the other evening and, during the 8 minute journey encountered 4 examples of driving outwith the normal rules namely:

1. Jumping red traffic light, not by accident absolutely deliberate
2. Emerging onto a roundabout regardless of the fact that I was approaching and would be forced to brake
3. Leaving the motorway at extremely high speed using the hatched area bound by the solid white lines at the cusp of the exit.
4. Reversing at speed back up to a roundabout forcing vehicle behind to pull onto opposite side of road.



If I'm being tailgated around the urban streets, chances are it will be a dark hatchback with persons of a certain ethnic origin within, driver sneering from beneath a baseball cap and seat in fully reclined position such that they have to lean forward to see out

Oh
Living in Cyprus for 3 years one witnesses some pretty bad driving but most of it is naive stupidity.
Here it is much more personal and purposeful, people will deliberatley engage in games of silly buggers with other drivers over a few feet of road. Most common example here is an exit off the M54 where most of the traffic is turning right. Some drivers will use left hand lane to avoid queueing back down the sliproad but rather than filter around safely, as they pull off some will race drivers who are in the right hand (and because of road markings technically the correct lane) around to the point where the latter would be moving across to pick their exit thereby baulking them. Its bloomin pathetic

1. No time for red light jumpers - you approach expecting it to change - ist Murphy's Law

2. This one I have difficulty with - you are approaching rondabout no actually on it und some one from another exit ??? enters und you have to give way then.

whatever happened to approach prepared to stop biut ready to go. I think you may have been liable Liebchen had you not braked

3. For all you know - may have been an unmarked on way to a sudden shout

4. Und a speed camera would stop this of course

By the way - you have not subjected your anedote to peer review - how can I possibly believe it then




Riggy

Now that is a non pee cee comment und likely to get Paulie into trouble for being a bit on the stereotype of Waily behaviour Ist a bit racist don't you think to be BLUNT about it Liebchen!




Stereotyping again Und if they are tailgating you - how come you not looking ahead for gap und place to ditch twazak behind ratther than trying to get graphic description to mitigate your driving into pedestrian whilst concentrating on what bloke behind ist wearing.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Not condoning action of the person turning right out of left hand lane at the end of slip road - but I cannot help but wonder at the state of a jam on L1 approach to this exit .

Do not know area but would be inclined to turn left und then double back at first opporunity. Or perhaps it need a roundabout?

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

I hope you are joking.
Are you seriously suggesting that because somebody has a lower IQ than you, or if they are less priveleged, then they are a worse driver than you?

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

No! IQ and education are not the same thing, one can have a high IQ and still be poorly educated.

I HOPE teabelly's comment here was tongue it cheek, but even if it was:

Cars ARE cheaper in real terms, so more people can afford them (including those from "lower socio-economic backgrounds") OK

Statistically, people from "lower socio-economic backgrounds" DO tend to be less well-educated. OK

"Less well educated and more inclined to not follow rules and regulations regarding safety/driving being on the road" NOT OK - I'm unaware of any evidence linking driving behaviour to educational attainment.

(It IS true that certain types of crime are more often carried out by people from "lower socio-economic backgrounds" BUT other types of crime are more the province of the better off and educated - e.g. tax evasion.)

Insurance companies would know the answer for sure as they rate people according to job/area where they live. I don't know whether they look into educational level, it is just an idea of what differentiates accident risk. I am not saying that people with a lower IQ/higher IQ or better/worse educated will drive better or worse than any other group , it is just a train of thought.

From what I remember when working in a motor insurance brokers people from council estates and low socioeconomic groups were charged more and the rating system did encourage a differentiation between 'middle class' jobs/areas and those in council estates/working class jobs.

It is easy for us to say this or that is prejudiced without even bothering to find out whether there is any truth in it. I'll have a trawl round on AA & P to see whether they have looked into it already as I have a feeling there are a few papers about the subject.

Sure, that is the way you or I would approach it. The type of people we get around here don't care.



I'm on the roundabout, some chav approaches in his poxy little hatchback and just pulls out forcing me to slow. I could see he was going to do it so slowed down.



Not in a Subaru with body kit, unlikely



I don't have to, thats why they are anecdotes, you can take them or leace them



Its also true I very much regret to say. The chavs race about from one lowlife infested area of the town to another, harassing anyone who gets in their way. I don't believe Paul will get into any trouble for what I have to say, I'm sadly recounting my experiences of driving, particularly at night, around my home town, these are my opinions. Calling it stereotyping dosn't actually mean it isnt so.



Eh? How do you know that this is what I'm doing? Just because I didn't go into the intimate details of how I deal with being tailgated, doesn't mean I don't do so appropriately. I was trying to keep my post short and succinct And as for clocking who they are and what they are wearing, one gets a perfectly good view when they pull up beside you at the lights/junction/roundabout. And they invariably fit my stereotype.

Its a sliproad that leads up to a roundabout, sorry didn't explain that very well. Majority of traffic goes right and hence longest queue is in right hand lane. Its actually quite OK to use the left lane as long as you do it sensibly and filter into gaps in the traffic as you go around the island. These gaps exist because traffic coming around the island only lets small groups of vehicles out at once, sensible drivers can tag on to the end of one clump of cars having used the left lane. Impatient ones race the clump around the island and baulk drivers trying to move across at the proper time.

It's not so much the jobs - some "middle-class" jobs are seen as very high risk - it's postcode - council estates etc have much higher levels of damage to cars, theft from cars, theft of cars etc. This doesn't reflect on the standard of driving of those living there particularly, I would think.

The training we had hinted at different driver ability as well as different theft risk as reasons for different premiums.

I have been looking at the odd study into accident risk rates and education level is in there as a factor. In an australian study of women drivers those with degrees were more likely to be involved in accidents if they had 'low life satisfaction' whatever that means. A big indicator of accident involvement amongst men was related to low self esteem with hostility and ignoring traffic regulations. Education level in that study was a small factor.

So pissed off people have more accidents... That seems very reasonable, but I wonder how insurance companies identify that?

The stuff you refer to is very interesting - where/how did you find it?

I found it trawling through the Accident Analysis and Prevention journal. It's available on the sciencedirect website and you can get the full text using an ATHENS login or from a university network that subscribes to the ejournals. Just click on the journals button at the top.

I searched on 'accident risk' and just went trawling through the list of what I thought looked relevant. If you have a minion handy to do a literature review for you then it would save you a lot of time

you see this kind of tactic on a daily basis in london... turning right-from-the-left-lane at light controlled junctions, roundabouts, etc etc, using the wrong lane to avoid queuing then attempting to merge/swerve over at the last moment. in my experience causes resentment amoungst other drivers and and the desire to cut out the queue jumper by driving inches from the car in front. Personally I think this and other examples of selfish & arrogant driving cause stress & anger amounst motorists so is a serious road safety issue with knock on effects beyond the conflicts they cause, what they need is a stern telling off by plod but I've yet to see a safety camera sic give someone a stern talking to...

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

It can be very annoying when you are queueing in the correct lane but somebody else uses the wrong lane and then has to cut in to the exit they want. But it happens all the time and is getting worse.

Not sure if that is lower standards, denser traffic or the me-me syndrome or all three.

When I lived in Nigeria I regularly joined horrendous jams on the motorway because people leaving at an exit formed a queue down the inside lane then others formed a queue in the middle lane and so on until they blocked the whole motorway. We are approaching that situation here.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

In my experience, the insurance companies don't have a clue. Last time I was looking for insurance I did a little experiment when defining my occupation. I discribed myself as a 'design engineer', 'mechanical engineer', 'agricultural engineer' and just plain 'engineer'. All four discribe my occupation truthfully, but guess what? All four came back with different premiums. If I tell them that I have a part-time job as an LGV driver (bullsh*t, but it was an experiment) my premium went UP even though the fact that I'm working as an LGV driver (or not ) would suggest a higher level of experience and education as a road user.

As for the 'postcode lottery' again, a load of tosh. My parents have a Bradford post code even thought they live 25 miles from the city in a tiny village with no car crime at all. When I moved to the middle of Swindon, my premium actually went DOWN even though anyone with a brain would tell you that my car is more at risk from theft here.


Personally I think that if you want to drive in a particular country you should have to sit a test there (possible exceptions for tourists for logistical reasons). Now I'm sure that there are plenty of 'foreign' drivers in this country who are perfectly capable (I'm thinking of Wildy and clan) but then again there are a vast number who aren't. I'm specifically thinking of Polish LGV drivers of which there are quite a few round here. Nos4r2 has worked with plenty of Eastern European LGV drivers in his time as an agency driver and in his experience the standards are appauling. Apparently now some companies are insisting on the drivers holding an NVQ in driving before they can be employed to try to counter this problem. Like you said teabelly, standards vary from country to country, so why should we be allowing sub-standard drivers to use our roads just because they come from an EU member state?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.