Safe Speed Forums

This from Sky News today..

DRIVERS A WASTE OF SPACE

Seven hundred miles of motorway are being "lost" due to drivers' poor lane discipline.

The "middle-lane hoggers" and "outside-lane blockers" are said to be wasting up to a third of motorway capacity in peak periods.


Research from the RAC Foundation reveals that a fall in the number of traffic police meant many motorists got away with poor driving.

RAC executive director Edmund King said: "The middle-lane hog and outside-lane blocker are selfish drivers who are wasting one third of our motorway capacity.

"If we can encourage these drivers to practice better lane discipline, it would be equivalent to adding 700 miles of new motorway capacity.

"Poor lane discipline wastes the scarce resource of road capacity, encourages road rage and leads to dangerous tailgating.

"We would like to see more traffic police on motorways pulling drivers over for hogging the middle lane," he added.

Perhaps it's too much to ask that the authorities could act to improve behaviour on the roads that doesn't involve extracting money from motorists.

A TV commercial campaign to remind (teach for the first time in some cases) the importance of lane discipline and enhanced police presence to 're-educate' those who still refuse to comply perhaps?

And why can't those ruddy great electronic signs be used to post little reminders ----"Move to the bloody left lane you cretins" would get peoples attention I reckon

I'm not defending middle-lane hogging, but I'm not at all convinced that it makes much difference to congestion. When motorways are really busy the traffic distributes itself across all three lanes anyway. Lane-hogging is a minor irritant, no more. If Lane 1's clear, then just drive in Lane 1. Problem solved.

The major causes of avoidable congestion are tailgating (and the sudden braking it provokes) and unnecessary lane-weaving, which can be seen on any congested motorway.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I'm sorry to put it like this Peter but of course it does, it obvious because..



But people don't do they?

Which leads to...



I think I trust the RAC on this one, they've got it spot on. And lets face it, they are rather dab hands at this motoring lark

Do you?

If not, why not?

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Lol, interesting to see that this has now become a question of how I personally drive

But to answer your question Peter, yes I do return to Lane 1, absolutely. Because I deplore the sloppy, selfish driving of people who don't.

So, if there are a few trucks in Lane 1 doing 56, a regular procession of cars in Lane 2 doing 62, and a procession of cars in Lane 3 doing 66, you just slot in to Lane 1 and grin and bear it?

Or do you drive in Lane 2 or Lane 3 and moan about middle-lane hoggers?

Personally, I drive to make the best use of the available roadspace and to maximise my own progress.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Oh have a day off for heavens sake. You ask me if I return to lane 1 and if not why not then go on to paint a convenient little scenario in which it might be better to stay in lane 2

Try at least to keep some logical flow to your argument that gives me chance to respond without falling into a hidden trap.

What do you do if there is plenty of room in lane 1 in which to pull in, the next car ahead is on the horizon. Do you stay in lane 2?

If there's nothing behind, then who cares, stay in Lane 2.

If traffic is busy then generally I would look at a minimum 400 yard separation before deciding to move into Lane 1.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

So over the space of a whole mile a minimum of 4 other vehicles in lane 1 would keep you in lane 2?

Say no more.

Yep.

And you'd be zig-zagging in and out every 20 seconds or so?

And that would improve traffic flow and safety?

In busy conditions both are maximised by minimising lane changes and maintaining a steady speed.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I agree with you, Peter is a fully paid up member of the middle lane owners club.

Personally I return to lane 1 and move out to lane 2 to overtake probably having to move to lane 3 at least once to pass peter and his chums who are sitting in Lane 2 for no valid reason.

I do this even if I am travelling at a ton plus and I return to lane one when it is clear.

So in your view what is the minimum time you would view as acceptable to stay in Lane 1 in busy conditions?

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Ahhh, now you're closer, time not distance is the important thing here.

Personally, I've never timed it, I've been driving (and riding) for sufficient years now to recognise when I'm overhauling the next vehicle in lane 1 sufficiently quickly to make it worth staying in lane 2.
I'd guesstimate it at about 20 - 30 seconds (but don't leap on that figure to use in a carefully contrived scenario please), plenty of time for someone overhaulling me at an even faster rate to get past if they want.

For me it is quite simple if I am not overtaking I don't need to be anywahere but lane 1.

I define overtaking as the process of passing a vehicle so if I am simply gaining on it I am not overtaking so I am in Lane 1.

Overtaking on a motorway should be a smooth movement so I move to lane 2 as a smooth movement to overtake and return to lane 1 once passed.

Come spend a day on the back of my bike with me, we'll link up the rider to pillion and spend a day observing the average driving abilities. (thats a serious offer by the way).

Remaining in lane 2 because there is a vehicle in lane 1 "somewhere up front" is exactly what causes a lot of traffic hold ups, trust me I filter through the queues and eventually you come across the perpertrator, I normally imagine them sitting there muttering to their passengers "I'm quite within my rights"

Yes, which is basically what I'm saying.

If there's a longer gap I'll move into Lane 1. Of course I will. In real-world conditions on quietish motorways I will probably come across as an obsessive Lane 1 occupier.

But if someone thinks I'm a lane-hogger if I stay in Lane 2 when there's a truck 20 - 30 seconds ahead then stuff them, they have an impatient and unhelpful attitude.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

But the only person who is going to think that is someone who is stuck behind you who can't pass because you are "quite within your rights" to stay in the lane as theres a truck up ahead.

To be honest the beligerence that you're not going to move to the left as the person behind is impatient is pretty well what the RAC are describing and would indeed make you a lane hog in my book.

30 seconds is plenty of time for you to pull in amnd let the car behind pass and move out again without any loss of progress on your part.

You see its all about perspective but if you ever find yourself saying "I am quite within my rights" please remember that theres a suffix to that which reads "even if I am driving like a prat"

And the truck driver's secret is the inside lane. We catch you all up at the first sign of a hold-up, and get to our destination about 5 minutes after you! I wonder if it's worth it?

This all depends on how fast you're going, how fast the guy coming up behind is going, and how fast the truck (or whatever) in lane 1 is going. If you're going to spend less than ten seconds in lane 1 before having to slow or get back out again it just isn't worth it. And there's not always a guarantee that you will get back out again. An alternative is if there's space in front of the truck. Why not speed up a bit to stop the guy behind getting too close and/or pissed off, then pull into L1 and return to your previous speed? Not always possible either, I admit, and of course these days a quick check ahead for flourescent jackets on bridges is always essential before putting your foot down. Let's not forget something else. There's usually a third lane, and sometimes a fourth. If I'm approaching a slower vehicle in L2 and there's an even slower vehicle ahead in L1 I'll be looking in advance for an opportunity to get into L3 and pass there. If the traffic is light enough that the L2 driver really can get in and out of lane 1 in less than 30 seconds, the chances are good that space in L3 will be available.
Of course, in rush hour nothing works. It's such a miserable bloody experience that I prefer to go miles out of my way on back roads, even if it actually takes longer. At least I arrive without wanting to throttle anyone.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

You are absolutely right so I'll refer you to the example that Peter used which was the basis for my "30 second" example

Ah, right. Well, in those circumstances I usually give up on lanes 2 and 3, and simply share a fairly empty lane 1 with the artics before getting off at the next junction. Oh, and curse myself for bothering to get on the motorway in the first place instead of using the back roads. Double curses if it's the M3 on a wekday morning, because I should know better by now. And if I really, really have to use the motorway (like when I don't know the area well enough to use back roads) I'll probably end up in lane 3 at 66, or if I have plenty of time, back to staring at the rear of an artic in lane 1.
The situation is partly down to bad manners of the middle laners, sure. But there's also problems with capacity and the fact that the artics are all forced to drive about 20% slower and take about a fortnight to overtake each other. I just don't see the point of getting wound up at the bloke who doesn't pull into lane 1 when 99 times out of 100 he's just someone wishing like hell he was somewhere else, much like the rest of us. "A regular procession of cars in Lane 2 doing 62" means his chances of getting back out again rest with finding a generous soul who'll open up a gap large enough, and that guy might be a mile behind.
The the middle lane hogs ones who really do wind me up come in two types. First, are the cretins who stay put even when the nearest thing in L1 is a speck on the horizon. They're more of an annoyance rather than a genuine problem, and I just go from L1 to L3, then back to L1. Occasionally they take the hint, and occasionally rocking horses take a dump. The second type are the real idiots. These are the ones who start to speed up as you pass, reducing that safe space ahead of them that you had intended to pull into. Compared to these the guys who don't use L1 in heavy traffic are a non-issue. It's not like you'd be able to go much faster anyway.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein