Safe Speed Forums

I have been preoccupied for some time with other matters and have not visited for a while. The site has certainly changed a fair bit since I was last here.

For those who do not know me (probably most) I live in Victoria, Australia which can best be described as a police state. The tolerance on speeding here is 3kph.

Well I've been booked on the Monash Freeway, just before the tunnel entrance, for doing 88kph detected 86kph alleged, on 26th December 2005.

Problem is that I installed a brand new Road Angel Navigator that very morning (Christmas present) and this was the first trip with it. I knew where the camera was and the Road Angel warned me well in advance. The entire way through the detection section I was regularly watching both the speedo and the Road Angel.

The Road Angel told me I was doing 80kph (+/- 1kph) and the speedo told me I was doing 82-3kph.

Soooo, it looks like the fixed speed cameras are misbehaving again but I'm sure I will have zero chance of defending it in this police state I call home, but I'll try anyway.

At this stage I have only received the company notification so it will be a while before I will send my letter of protest as I will use the full 28 days to respond to this letter and then the full 28 days to send my reply when I receive the actual speeding notice addressed to me.

Is it any wonder why the public in general are so pissed off with cameras when there are stories every day of people who are absolutely sure they were not speeding getting booked.

If speed limits were enforced by police officers ONLY and they used discretion these sorts of stupid situations would reduce dramatically and the public confidence in the police and the law would start to heal.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Nice to hear from you, M3RBMW, but why are you asking us? I thought you wanted independence.

Nothing was asked, I was simply recounting my experience and noting that even fixed cameras are inaccurate.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Hi M3RBMW from across theTasman, the one thing I haven't come across personally in NZ is innacurate readings from cameras (most tolerances here are +10k), but there is a huge hole in the enforcement law. Invariably the picture from a camera doesn't identify the driver, and the only evidence of the identity is when the fine is paid! The law states the registered keeper of the vehicle is "conclusively presumed to have committed the offence" unless they prove someone else did. However the NZ Bill of Rights contradicts this clearly stating you are innocent until proven guilty (and you don't need to answer questions etc etc), so you can't be prosecuted for failing to identify the driver and I can't see you can be prosecuted for speeding either. How does Victoria deal with this problem?
Presumably you have thoroughly studied www.pepipoo.com

Seems to be a universal thing (except in the peoples republic of Durham), a place aparently behind the times, yet so far in front as to be unreal.
Accidents there are falling, injuries are falling - but we are told that little hi tech equipment is used - only little old fashioned police officers.
Trucks at rest trigger Gatsos , buses are recorded at 80mph, tacho says 30 , walls (not ices, or sausages) move at uncanny rates - yet the scp say nothing is wrong.

The similarity is that the wound between police and public is rotting , a disease called SCP(like MRSA, only more deadly) is spreading, and no bacterological agent or disinfectant has yet to be found.
Paul has lanced a few boils of this infection, but untill the government machine is fitted with an advanced hearing and logic solution, the rampant scp brain infection lives on.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Sorry, mate. That was below the belt but I couldn't resist it.

Goes to show how small the differences are, even on the other side of the world.

A police state? So Oz isn't just mile after mile of empty dust tracks...?

Plead innocent and let them take you to court. They would have to prove you exceeded the limit and that it was you that was driving. If they claim you are time wasting tell them the road angel said you were doing 80 kph and your speedo said 82 kph. Other people may have fallen victim to i so I'd kick up a fuss in the local paper. I'd also mention how you nearly ran over a child/slow moving old person because you were so busy watching the speedo

I would be a little surprised if pepipoo could offer advice on Australian law but I do know that in Victoria the legislation covering this sort of thing is basically impenetrable.

If I do not tell them who was driving I am up for the cost of the fine + $629.

If the charge was bad enough the $629 might be worth it but for a small fine I would rather fight it personally rather than refuse to tell them who was driving.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

You say Victoria law is impenetrable but if it really did have everything sewn up lawyers would be out of business.

If you can't see a clear-cut solution, why not try what I did after getting a speeding ticket last year, the first in my 38 years behind the wheel? I wrote directly to the Chief Constable, laying on every argument I could think of, carefully researched and in moderate language. It worked.

What's your driving record? If it is exemplary, tell him that proecuting someone like you does nothing whatsoever for the cause of road safety but ony serves only to drive a thicker wedge between the police and generally law-abiding citizens.. etc.

You could also hint - in passing, not as a direct threat - that prosecuting someone whose speed was governed by a bona fide and widely-used piece of motoring equipment could open a can of worms.

I have no idea how the system works in Victoria but it's worth a try. Some policemen are human.

But what is the $629 fine for? refusing to answer questions? You will have to find out if Australia has a Bill of Rights Act. As pepipoo points out fight the first ticket not the last - read EVERYTHING printed on any official documents sent to you.
Just think about it - you are 100% sure you weren't exceeding the speed limit, paying the fine is admitting you did - therefore paying is committing perjury because you are lying for which you can go to prison. Leave the lying to the police, they are very good at it.

PaulH,

I am only talking about the requirement to nominate the person driving the vehicle and the ability of the state to impose a fine if you refuse.

jaybkay,

I have absolutely no intention of paying the fine without a fight. My driving record is crap as I am regularly fined for minor speeding offences because I watch the road and not the speedo. I have been particularly vigilant over the last few years and I believe this is the first time in over 3 years that I have been caught.

I use the word caught because I am sure I exceed the speed limit almost every time I drive my car, not by much, but almost every time.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

Hi Ross,

Nice to see you again. Sorry to hear you're being battered by stupid laws...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Ross,
try the "I'm fed up with being caught speeding, so installed Road Angel, which seems to have shown your equipment to have been in error."
Ask them to prove IN COURT, to a judge, that the system works, and that NO OTHER driver has entered such a defence.
If you cock enough pistols, sooner or later one will go off!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Hi Ross,
deepest sympathy. Have you looked at the innaccuracy of the equipment ? Not sure what type you have down under But we had a story of panels on vans vibrating and giving false results. Laser guns also have problems. To my utter shame I rolled over and paid up when I was caught 40 in a 30 ( was NSL put down to 40 then down to 30 just before I was nabbed) If it happened now I would fight it to the ends of the earth. Good luck mate ! Keep us informed of how it goes.

Richard

Unfortunately this type of camera has sensors in the road so none of the defenses associated with laser or radar apply.

All I can do is state what happened, including the fact that my wife witnessed the speed reading, and see what happens. I think I should be able to rely on GPS calculated speed more than their road sensor.

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!