Safe Speed Forums

I give up. There appears to be neither rhyme nor reason to motoring insurance premiums. The insurance groups given from searching http://www.abi.org.uk/carinsurance/ don't help because the premiums that insurance companies charge don't reconcile with the groups. It irks me that profit-driven entities have more power than the police to determine who can legally drive what -- hence this rant.

The catalyst for this is that my son has outgrown his first car and we're looking for a replacement. I got caught by the insurance companies when we bought his first car. We had a quote initially for a Renault Clio (group 4) that was affordable. We bought him a Citroen AX (group 2) and (after we'd committed to the purchase) were horrified to find that the premium was nearly double that quoted for the (higher insurance group) Clio. Needless to say, this time we intend making a nuisance of ourselves by asking for a quote for every car we consider.

My son want's something a little bigger and frugal. So, we've been looking at "sensible" cars and have test-driven a Peugeot 406 and a Rover 420 (both turbo-diesels). For the 406 (group 10) they wanted nearly £200 extra premium and for the Rover (group 11) they wanted nearly £160 extra. My wife has a 140hp, 2.5 litre, Volvo 850. This is a group 13 car with significantly more performance than the cars we've looked at for my son. Just for a laugh, I asked for a quote for the Volvo and was astonished that they only wanted £99 extra premium.

It just doesn't make sense. I had thought that the premium charged depended on a "driver risk" value and the insurance group; the quote would be obtained from the intersection of these two values in a simple table -- but no! Here, "driver factors" are identical but the premiums charged bear no resemblance to the insurance groups. There is also evidence that insurance companies "change their minds" about certain cars and change the loading from year to year. A classic example is the huge premium hikes that afflicted hot hatches in the seventies. So, a youngster could get a car with reasonable insurance costs only to have the companies change their mind enough to make the car non-viable at renewal time. For a very young driver, the insurance costs are likely to be bigger than all other costs combined. So, it is surely unacceptable that such uncertainty exists.

FWIW, I can now understand (but not condone) why some motorists drive without insurance and think that it's high time the insurance companies were brought to heel.

More pragmatically, does anyone know where to get a reliable "ball-park" idea of premiums without having to ring around the insurance companies for a quote for each likely car?

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Will

Yeah, I had a very similar thing when looking for insurance quotes for my first car (and trying to decide what car to get based on them). It really is very hard to tell what the quote is based on. What I would do is find a few cars that you're interested in, and then use Norwich Union's online quote facility. Make sure you have the registrations of the cars you're interested in because that way you will get a fairly accurate quote online. Don't be afraid to ring up people selling second hand cars (I assume you're intending to buy second hand? If you can afford to buy new, then insurance premiums surely aren't an issue? ) and ask them for the registration - just tell them you're wanting to check the insurance.

Eventually you should find a car that you like and that has a vaguely reasonable insurance quote (although insurance for young drivers is always going to be expensive ).

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-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

Try confused.com it worked for me, the site links to most other brokers and you only have to enter your details once. I got the tip from www.moneysavingexpert.com

Let us know how you got on, my daughter turns 17 in November, laughably she thought about getting her own car whilst still at College. I shall be putting her on our insurance.

Max

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Tailgaters - Please Pass
You have an Accident to go to!

Thanks for the tip -- judging by my experiences, confused.com has the right name! However, we've come to our senses and got it all sorted -- the solution was staring us in the face. My son gets his mum's Volvo and my wife gets a "new" car. So, he gets to drive around in a 130 mph beast and the insurance costs less than for a "cooking" diesel.

BTW, something to consider about putting your daughter on your insurance is the reason why we bought him his own car in the first place. My wife's insurers refused to cover my son on his mum's policy and so another car was the least-painful option. It all seems ironic now that the cheapest way of getting our son a car where he physically fits behind the wheel is to transfer to him the very car for which he couldn't be insured just twelve months ago!

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Will

Apparently insurance quotes from a particular company for the same driver and vehicle can vary significantly during the course of a day because companies have quotas for particular types of business that they aim to fill. If they've insured enough people in one category they'll give an uncompetitive quote.

The result is a market that, while often highly competitive on price, is seriously lacking in transparency for the consumer. Also, when it's pot luck what you're quoted, it's virtually impossible to make a trade-off between cost and quality of service in the same way as you can in many other markets.

I would second the comment made about www.confused.com, who have just saved me £60 on my renewal premium and given me about the cheapest annual figure I've had for ten years (although the fact I've just turned 45 might have something to do with it )

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

don't think that putting the kids on your insurance is a cheap way to build up no claims. As soon as they get a policy of their own it's back to square one. He should have the car insured in his name asap. In a few years time when he thinks he can afford a new car then insures it him self he's gonna wonder what hit him.

I think if he is on your policy and makes a claim then you will pay for it too.

On way to slightly bring down a young drivers quote is to have you as a named driver.

When we tried that for my son's first insurance, it would have cost about a hundred pounds extra to include me as a named driver, significantly less to include my wife, and about a hundred and ten pounds extra to include both of us. Both of us have maximum NCD on our own policies.

That said, YMMV so it's worth checking with your insurers.

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Will

On a related note, does anyone know of any insurers that will take previous company car time into account?

I had a company car for 4 years (no accidents) and now have had a private car for two years (no accidents).

When I last tried to renew I could only get 2 years no claims, which I think is ridiculous. I can supply a letter of no claims from the fleet manager at my old company.

Anyone know? My current premium is over £500 for a 1.6 Focus which is ludicrous.

I recently took the money instead of the car, and had to look around. I used the AA, who gave me 5 years no-claims on the basis of a declaration giving details of my company and (IIRC) the leasing company. I ended up being pretty happy with the quote. I am an AA member, which may have influenced the final deal.

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Keep right on to the end of the road ...

When I brought my first car back in December '03 (A Peugeot 205 GRD) I went through www.insuresupermarket.com. You plug the details of the car into their webpage and sit and watch as the quotes come tumbling in. I looked at about 20 cars and quoted on every one of them using the website.
Finally decided on the 1985 205 cos they drive better than anything else of similar size (and it had new MOT 7 months tax and 1/2 tank of diesel) and phoned the cheapest company on the list. The girl on the other end sifted through all my quotes and had to delete all of them before deciding the £374 was not correct and it would be about £800 instead. "Why?" I asked. Because thats what the computer says based on your medical history. This was the same medical history I had put into the website in the first place.
As a result I went to a specialist broker (Adrian Flux) who quoted me exactly £600. Bearing in mind im a new driver (aged 27 though) I felt this wasnt a bad deal.
However, when the Pug broke I had to find another car in a hurry so I brought a 94 Escort Turbo Diesel. Phoned the insurance up and guess what. The quote was exactly the same!!! They even waived the £20 admin fee making me think that this car is actually cheaper to insure. The Pug had 68bhp according to the manual and with 190k on the clock was probably a fair bit less. The Escort (with intercooler, an optional extra) has 102bhp according to the manual.
So the car is 1/2 the age, nearly 2x as powerful and yet is less to insure!

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The police ARE the law, not ABOVE it!!!

Basically the group system is only used by the insurers in addition to their own factors. I have read that Volvo's generally are rarely owned by young drivers and presumably those that do are a lower risk, so the premium would be less.

I have just turned 25 and can now go on classic policies - the renewal for my '92 Chevy Caprice (with 2yrs NCD, second policy) was £435 TPFT but I got a quote on a classic policy and ended up paying £420 comprehensive. I have just imported on '02 Chevy Impala and that will be similar, but a bit less because it only has a 3.8 V6.

Gareth

Seems pretty steep when you've really got 6 years NCD. I was in the same position about 3 years ago and had no problems using a similar letter from my old employer to get more discount. Can't remember which company it was at the time though. Might have been Tesco or Elephant, or possibly Endsleigh (who Mrs Gatsobait swears by). Maybe you just need to shop around some more.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

Isn't this what insurance brokers are for?