Safe Speed Forums

Hi everybody, I've been reading the threads on here about the possibility of retesting over 70 year olds, with great interest.
I can sympathise with many of the comments about bad driving on our roads today, people not signalling at roundabouts, etc.etc.
I think that my own driving is of a good standard, and whenever I've suggested to friends that yearly, bi-annual, or five yearly retests would be a good idea, and would save a lot of lives and injuries, I can see their hackles rise as they go on the defensive!
Well, how about, instead of a compulsory retest, what about a voluntary test that is done by your insurance company. If I pay £200 - £300 a year for insurance, surely the company can afford to pay one of their staff to examine me for 30 minutes? Or what if I agreed to pay for the test anyway, at a cost of £20, and if I fail I stay on my current rate, but if I pass, I get a lower premium, thus saving me far more than the £20 it cost for the test?
Presumably only good drivers would volunteer to take this sort of test, so it would be self-selecting.
Bad drivers wouldn't dare take the test as they would expect to fail.
I have another idea as well - a voluntary annual retest for anybody who wants to, and every time you pass, you are allowed to have a number or letter added to the end of your number plate - i.e. if you'd passed ten times, you'd get a '10' on a 'pass plate' next to your number plate. That way, experienced, good drivers would be clearly visible to other road users, it would give them kudos, and make taking retests something that a lot of people voluntary would want to do. (Just as people buy personal number plates and the like). Imagine being 50 and still being stuck on a '1' plate - everybody could see you had never bothered to retake your test.
I'm also all in favour of unmarked police cars simply filming bad drivers, pulling them over, and presenting them with the evidence, and then being able to force them to retake their test, with a permanent ban in place after a set number of tries, until they actually passed it.
And I'm also in favour of a 10 year sentence for driving without a licence, driving whilst disqualified, and a far bigger fine or a prison sentence for driving without insurance.
And I also think speed cameras are a good thing - to all those who seem to think they are simply there to make money- let's change the system so you get points on your licence instead of a fine - three strikes and you're banned for a year.

How do you judge that your driving is 'of a good standard'?



Speed cameras would be a good thing if they increased the amount of driver attention directed towards an important safety factor. I've seen no evidence that they do so.

Why do you think they are a good thing?

On the more general 'retesting' points, we'll need to define a rather more sophisticated 'test' before it would really have a substantial value, but I'd love to see drivers have the incentive towards further training.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

We explored the idea of assessments every 5 years - whereby the driving was marked and those showing improvements or sound pracitce received lowered premiums. But MM, self and the Swiss in general were a little dracononainly subjective in demands for medicals as well - but then we had a "nasty" with one of the the family once. Long story but Wildy's history has been well documented on here..




Yes you are right - we do need a carrot to motivate and inspire - we should all take pride in what we do and - driving well and cpmpetently [/] - cycling [i] well and competently and riding well and competently should be seen as part of this. After all - most of us try to "impress the boss and take pride in our work and our homes and our appearance - and developing any skill should be viewed in the same way .




We give acid lectures in Durham... - and we offer DIS to the truly awful - but redeemable whenever we can .. and it seems to work fine overall.
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We already have facilities in place via magistrates courts for re-test and lessons. Sometimes the mags will reduce the length of a ban for "drink?careless" on proviso that the driver attends a course and takes an extended test in some cases.





If they kill whilst driving unlicenced or disqualified or uninsured - then - yes - I would agree about punishment being more fitting to the crime. We (or rather entire Swiss family plus pals) did sign mahali's pettion at the time for Hayley (12) - plus the Saunders' family's petition - as one of these morons killed little Rebecca and left baby Kirsty crippled for life...

However, where the incident is more due to a tragic sequence of events resulting in a fatal accident - and where nothing could have prevented (as in the recent Rhyl tragedy) - then the courts and our justice system has to be able to discern all facts objectively to return decistions based on finding of fact, equity and justice.




Nope - not a good thing because as we have discovered - we are simply shifting speed problems to other routes, accidents to other routes - and yes - Durham has its incidents .... we just happen to have [i] less of them - better compliance overall - and policemen on the prowl !

Besides - very easy to pick up a smidgeon of speed and there is a nasty habit of placing too close to speed limit changes in some areas. In fact - S Yorks under Mereddydd has removed some badly sited ones.

Also - given people need cars to get to work - simply banning is not going to teach how to to improve - why Lancs has the right approach and they have become slightly more tolerant - inviting those who would benefit more than the 34mph /35 mph club..

Also - too much automation .. those banned drivers - become "chancers" and drive anyway - slipping through the net in pool cars....

By the way - :welome:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Because when I came to this site, I was expecting it to be about keeping to the speed limit, due to the name, whereas strangely enough, I found it was the exact opposite!
I judge my driving to be of a good standard because I don't speed, I don't tailgate, I have 20/20 vision, I am considerate to others, I don't get in bad moods and go out and drive like an idiot, I don't accelerate too rapidly, I don't brake at the last minute, I watch the road ahead and around me, I check my speedometer every ten seconds or so, I've never had an accident, I've spotted numerous bad drivers within seconds of seeing them and then gone onto watch them commit dangerous driving offences in front of me, and I'm more than happy to resit my driving test every year.

Because they slow down speeding drivers. Speeding drivers kill people. I'd rather be hit by a car travelling at 30 than at 50, wouldn't you?
Speeding drivers are always AGGRESSIVE people too...
Can you explain to me (or even yourself) why they aren't?
They're also selfish people too... Because they think they can ignore the rules that we ALL signed up to when we got our drivers' licences, because they're just SOOO important and are in a hurry all the time...
Need I go on?

So speed cameras aren't a good idea because we are 'shifting speed problems to other routes'? Don't you mean 'speeding drivers'?
Speed cameras ARE a good idea precisely because they get up the backs of so many of the selfish people in our society who think the rules don't apply to them, and they stop them from speeding.

It's never happened to me, and never will. Simply check your speedometer regularly. If you can't do that without losing attention of what's happening around you, you shouldn't be driving.

How to improve? 'Improve'? You mean - stop speeding? How long and how difficult is THAT to teach? "Dear sir, please stop speeding or you will be banned from driving".

Obviously, judging from the speed freaks all over this forum, it's very difficult to convince some people when they are clearly in the wrong...


Aahh.. I see. We shouldn't ban drivers because even though they are dangerous and are happy to risk OTHER people's lives, if we ban them they will continue to drive illegally. How about ten years in prison for driving while disqualified?

It isn't 'compliance' that marks a 'good driver'. It's being 'incident free' that marks a good driver. Being accident free is a fair yardstick, but crashes are rare enough that many bad drivers avoid crashes by luck.

I'd say checking your speedometer every ten seconds makes you a bad driver. You're claiming to give up around 10% of your total attention to an essentially useless instrument.

Do you think it would make you crash or drive too fast if your speedo stopped working?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Funny you should say that...

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

But this is still your own view of your own driving. I do not knwo if you are prone to "moods" and your "mood" is subjective anyway. It is still your peception of your mood. - and you could still be thinbking of work and your lunch just the same.

Lot of drivers never have "accidents" - but they cause them - the catalyst

You actually come across as a potential hazard to me - because you are not evaluating your driving objectively - you appear "complacent as you think you are not making any errors.

How do you know?

You may think you are not tailgating at 2 seconds - but the driver in front may have a different feel to that "two seconds" and feel this is too close for "their comfort"

Also - how do you know you are keeping a minimum of two seconds? Do you recite "one kangarooo - two kangaroo" or "only a foool - breaks the two second roo-ool?"

Your perception of "dangerous" sounds a little suspect to me... I observe IAM - and have been involved in training prefessional police drivers in the course of my career - and they have to sastisfy me that they are willing to learn all the time - every incident can be "new" but we have to rely on expertise and leanred skills to deal with these effectively - and evaluate each and every drive - could it be improved?

But what appears to you as "dangerosu" could be because the person tool a calcualted safetey led risk - which you yourself judge "not your thing or style" but that does not necessarily mean that that action was "dangerous".

For example - if I am driving my daughter's small hatch - a Clio - then I know it has not got the pulling oomph to perform one or two manoeuvres which the large family car just takes in its stride.

But just because you would not do soemthing or perceive something as "dangerous" is not grounds to claim this is "dangerous"

Apart from that - you should be able to perceive.... I can usually tell if someone will make a move on a right hand turn... and I adjust in case....same as seeing a pedestrian or cyclsit in the distance -


If you are seeing this many "dangerous" in front of you all the time - then perhaps your COAST skills are not as good as you perceive and you could be in for a nasty shock should you take a test.

Might I suggest you contact yuour local IAM and post exactly what they say to you? I would be amazed if there is no advice to give you.



Really? And Direct Line's survey found they have little impact despite 15% being on points and 3% of those being one away from ban on tot-up.

They ain't slowing anyone down .... Cannot be for so many to be fined ... and I see higher speeds in Cleveland and Northumberland where they have cams than here where we don't.




I would rather not be hit at all. But the BMW driver show car developed a taste for the ton-up without his permission ploughed into a roundabout at 115 mph and was not injured... He was lucky - and he showed remarkable presence of mind and a good deal of skill as well by all accounts of that story

Drivers who do not use COAST kill people.

Drivers who drive defective cars kill people (we lost one through that... )

Drivers who drive whilst unfit to drive kill people.

Er cameras - do not cop these .....

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

They do not stop them from speeding. Hpow can they when millions are still being fined. By the way - some are as low as 34mph - or they used to be when Lancs cut off at 35 mph for the speed course. It undermined the whole scheme and was not what my Dad envisaged when involved in its design - and it does focus on what makes a safe driver ...

Concentration
Observation
Anticipation
Space
Time

And we also have LOOKOUT and POWER as useful acrobnyms - but I want you to do your homework and tell me what they mean and whether you apply.

I would also like you to tell me what you think are your stringest and weakest COAST skills.

These are the same questions we put our lads and lasses through on a debrief of any incident - so not being "'orrid"


But we cannot have s/cams on every lamp post - even Dicky B acknowledged this and Mereddydd also concurs. Training to improve helps and there is a letter from a 60 year old in AutoCar: he has just passed his IAM






I do not have to glance at my speedo - again you are being complacent - and you should not need to glance at a speedo every 10 seconds either. This tells me you are more concerned over speed than the other hazards.

A really GOOD driver fee-eeels the speed and can judge accurately.


Wildy and Siegli are perhaps the most "talented"amongst the Swiss family (Because they do lurk and read - I discount Axel and Hans - who posted to the defunct Cumbrian site a couple of times - some on here will recall them ) because they are police - and I consider these two to be people I learn from ) But basically some of that family can tell me a speed they are travelling at - with the speedo covered over and me using the speed gun on them

OK - so I had the advantage of being related to the Swiss who are every competitive drivers - they have one rally driver - an ace of the 60s circuit in their ranks -

We go on regular track days together and have enjoyed many a cycling/riding/ walking/sailing holiday together in the past.

I also have the advantage of Hendon training at its best - and several years progressing in my career.





Well - that's what wwe seem to be doing isn't it? Speed four times within three years and you will be banned - only a person ended up with 9 points for driving along the sea front in Blackpool at 34 mph at 4 a.m.
Due to 3 points being saved by the Speed Course in 2003 - person escaped a ban. Had he done this in 2006 - he would not have been done at all as they have now changed the rules .... nothing improved and the course - an EXCELLENT ONE IN CONTENT was being undermined. BADLY

By the way - no one on this site is a "speed freak" All here want drivers to be more resposnsible and by responsible we do not mean "complacent and believing they have nothing to learn -

[i] a complacent driver ... biker... cyclist is the most dangerous person using our roads and complacency means those who think they are perfect and have nothing to learn - which is how you are coming across. Please look at your driving and please look at these "so-called dangeropus drivers and ask yourself

HOW DID MY DRIVING AFFECT THE OTHER ROAD USER AND WHY DID I JUDGE HIM TO BE A DANGER TO ME - DID I DO SOMETHING TO CAUSE THIS




We do not have the space - and basically at the risk of sounding "racist" - many of these qare immigrants who have not taken our tests or made any effort to integrate.

Also - in the interestst of justice - we have to have a punishment system which reflects a crime - if the disqualified driver caused an accident - they get the masimum the court can pass. If the person took a chance and has a darned good reason... and I can think of some emergencies here - then again the justice system has to take this into account as well as any personal circumstances offered as "mitigation"

That is what a civilised , fair and just soceity should be offering.

But bottom line - no speed cam will detect a pool car and the system fails badly on this.

On the other hand - thos e of us who still have a strong trafpol/panda fleet pick up on these very very quickly

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Insurance companies aren't interested in how good a driver you are, all they need to know is how likely you are to make a claim. Your claims record, and various other factors about you such as how old you are, where you live, what kind of car you drive, what job you do etc. give them all the information you need to know.

Even if you have a RoSPA Gold pass - which is the highest level of "normal" advanced driving qualification, vastly above the standard of the L-test, and re-examined every three years - you will be lucky to get a 5% discount from an insurance company.

Retests would not tell them anything they didn't know already.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

But psychological profiling might.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I expect it would cost them at least £100 / driver to put this test on, which is probably more than the difference - nice idea though...



Additionally, I'd take issue with the speeding drivers = aggressive drivers comment - what may be the case is that the drivers likely to be speeding around dense traffic in unsafe ways (and hence capturing your attention) are likely to be aggressive drivers.

"I'd rather be hit by a car travelling at 30 than at 50, wouldn't you?"

Would rather not be hit at all.


Sister was hit by a car that pulled out of a service road hit the side of the car on the passenger side wheel the impact was transmitted up through the steering column (she had seen him start to move and tried to steer away) impact speed was about 15mph, she now has no curvature of the spine as is normal her spine is straight, according to the consultant she is seeing it wouldn't have mattered if the speed was higher e.g. 30mph as she would still have a straight spine.

Turns out this guy has a history of this sort of accident at this spot, he was insured at the time but has since been caught driving without insurance.


As for retesting, the current test IMO isn't worth much, so before we start forking out for retesting lets get a decent test in place first.

Once we've done that let's get proper incentives in place for those that take 'additional' driving qualifications/training.

As for psychometric testing of drivers try this link: http://www.peakperformance.net/

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk