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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:14 
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mosis wrote:
Still, it's a nice try at bait and switch again: "I can't check my speedo because I'm too busy 'concentrating'". I really believe that - NOT.
You don't check your speedo because you don't CARE what the speed limit, you think YOU should be able to make up your own rules.


Are you saying that if your speedometer was broken it would be impossible for you to drive safely?

The speed limit is in no way a measure of safety. Speed limits were originally just introduced to provide an easy way to prosecute people who were driving far too fast; but since then they have become over-enforced to the point where they are treated as the yardstick of safety, when they are nothing of the sort.

There are many 60mph single carriageway roads where 60 is too fast; and likewise, there are many 30mph roads where 30 is too slow.

This is not about people "wanting to speed", it is simply that most drivers naturally drive at a safe speed for the conditions, and forcing them to disrupt their normal driving pattern and instead limit their speed to an arbitrary number on a stick is dangerous.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:16 
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Oz Mosis on caffeine wrote:
....which always stays right ON the speed limit...

Do I have to explain everything?


No you don't.
you have said enough to explain everything with that one sentence.

You seem to be the speed obsessed driver who looks at his speedo every ten seconds (your words) or spends much time studying the snarling faces of the driver behind you in your mirror..... and hits a pedestrian who is careless enough to step out in front of you with serious consequences for them.

Meanwhile a whole lot of motorists who pay more attention to the road ahead instead of their speedometer reading (which is not accurate anyway) are able to spot the careless pedestrian, and employ a whole range of countermeasures - brake, steer around or sound a horn, or a combination of all of these. Perhaps even speed up to ensure they are PAST the danger point before the pedestrian reaches it!!

If you have not had a serious accident so far, it is simply LUCK, and not good driving on your part! Your slavish attention to your speedo and mirror constitutes driving without due care and attention!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:19 
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T2006 wrote:
itdontgo, thank you for cheering up my morning.

Your thread title "Speed cameras are Excellent" is one of the most blatant juvenile attempts to be antagonistic I have seen on this forum.

It made me chuckle.

May be you should become a spokesperson for Brake?


Juvenille? If you say so. Antagonistic? Indeed. This is such a one sided website that I knew any suggestion that speed cameras are not all bad would be seen as an attack on it and its memebrs.

I dont think it really cheered you up though. I think you get cheered up when you hear an isolated story about how a speed camera was set off by a milk float. I dont really believe you like reading about people supporting speed cameras.


Last edited by itdontgo on Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:25, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:20 
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itdontgo wrote:
I'd love to spend all afternoon arguing with a load of arrogant people who will only ever see this subject from one point of view
but I have far better things to do with my time. This will be my last post

The irony :D


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:23 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
I'm noticing that you make virtually no attempt to answer issues rasied by other posters. Many serious issues have been raised, well worthy of answers.

mosis wrote:
So in other words, we have ANOTHER 'driver' who can't even maintain a constant, steady speed...


Why would "maintain[ing] a constant, steady speed" be a good thing? Is he driving in a constant steady hazard environment? Don't you think that speed should be adjusted to suit the hazard environment?


Thats right. In a 30 do 30 unless you have to slow for a hazard. Very good you're learning.

All your arguments are based on the fact that you have to look down when passing a speed camera. If you drove at the speed limit like you are supposed to then you would notice that you are speeding by by looking out of the windows - that big bit of glass in front of you. You know when you are speeding.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:26 
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smeggy wrote:
itdontgo wrote:
I'd love to spend all afternoon arguing with a load of arrogant people who will only ever see this subject from one point of view
but I have far better things to do with my time. This will be my last post

The irony :D


In my posts I have said that I can see why people dont like speed cameras and why they are good. That's seeing both sides of the arguement. You just see them as bad - the way you want to.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:30 
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itdontgo wrote:
Has anybody noticed how the first gear crawl along the M6 in rush hour is eased by the 40mph speed camera monitored section? Its excellent isn't.



It ist not case on most motorway I use on commute. If jam - it stay that way for as long as m/way travel through the urban - business park sections.


Quote:
Also has anybody noticed how people actually dont speed for a short amount of time when there is a speed camera?


The 0.7 second und then they accelerate hard after that... Ja - it really slow people down... :roll: :roll:

Quote:
Speed cameras are great aren't they? And to think, the people who hate speed cameras so much are the people who actually got them there in the first place (I think the irony is lost on them though). If they were not such excessive and persistant speeders then there would never have been the call for these wonderful examples of electronic engineering.


They were first "sold" to unsuspecting public as "only near schools und densest urban areas where ist not possible for :bib: to patrol on very regular basis.

Ist then Tone und Crones who wanted to make some Noo Labia job foir the boys und the basic otherwise unemployable und they hit on Pratnerships - at same time this wheeze could cut police costs - but we "sell tht idea for the dupes who vote out there as "freeing police to do other things und make intelligent decisions about terrorists"

How we do so far? Crime ist UP. We still wait hours on 999 und will never see any one on a 101 to call centre in India or whereever it get palmed off to.. :roll: Und we not only have bunch of terrorist plot under noses - we even manage to kill the wrong one... :roll: :roll: :cry:

In meantime - we have rising car crime, increased reports of car jacking, more drink drivers - not discovered on pull but when they arrive in hospital after causing an accident :roll: :roll: :furious:

Feral children causing distress to local residents und so on...

Not a good deal to inspire such confidence - und have greatest respect for :bib: - IG ist my cousin... und his Papa und brothers und one sister are all :bib: too.... und have nice relationship with the local :bib: here too - we say :hello: und have friendly :gossip: :gossip: :lol: :lol:





Quote:
.
I suppose people like me who just do a few miles an hour over the speed limits, sometimes accidentally sometimes inentionally, suffer in that we may occassionally get caught out but that has never happened to me individually yet. Besides I am happy that people cant go around driving in an irresponsible manner anymore and its worth the occasional speed ticket if you ask me.


You would not be saying this if you live up here. I know of a girly who picked up ticket from Steve 's mob at Shap und then two more on same journey in Lancs.... und we know of one from Blackpool Gazette of 2003 who get 4 pings on the road from South Pier to Cleveleys - 9 points as one saved by Speed Course - und his speed? 34 mph on two und 35 mph on the others.... :roll: :roll:

Quote:
I know some people like to complain about the police and the government that they may get fined for driving their cars too fast but if it wasn't for people like them there would be no cameras. I kind of like the idea that they get annoyed by speed cameras. Its their behaviour that is annoying them but they dont realise it so they will persist in being frustrated (rather funny if you ask me!).


Ist about a single focus policy which fail to deliver. I am not seeing deaths plummet - und we are certainly not seeing any real improvement in driving standards whilst we rely on automation - which does not cop the drunk or druggged chancers, the tired driver, the guy in the defective car und there ist no warning to people not to drive if they feel really ill or tired ...und speak from bitter personal expeperience of someone dying at wheel hitting me at great speed.

But then am living proof that speed does not necessarily kill .... :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:30 
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Quote:
If you drove at the speed limit like you are supposed to then you would notice that you are speeding by by looking out of the windows - that big bit of glass in front of you. You know when you are speeding.

Actually at best you could only tell within a few MPH what your exact speed would be. It takes a Laser rangefinder, or a photograph with lines on the road to judge your EXACT speed.
What you CAN tell by watching "out the glass" is whether you can see a potential hazard, and whether your speed is low enough to negate it, or if you need to take more action - braking, sound horn, etc., to neutralise the hazard.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:34 
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Quote:
Also has anybody noticed how people actually dont speed for a short amount of time when there is a speed camera?

Actually you are wrong. Several motorists are on 9 points apparently - which says they DID NOT slow down. Yet nobody stopped them from speeding, they let them get on with it, so they could pay more speeding tax!! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:35 
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orange wrote:
This is not about people "wanting to speed", it is simply that most drivers naturally drive at a safe speed for the conditions, and forcing them to disrupt their normal driving pattern and instead limit their speed to an arbitrary number on a stick is dangerous.


I know what you are about. I know you make a good case - apart from the suggestion that sticking to the speed limit is dangerous, which I'm afraid spoils your arguement for me.

The problem is that what you want will never work for so many reasons.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:36 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Quote:
Also has anybody noticed how people actually dont speed for a short amount of time when there is a speed camera?

Actually you are wrong. Several motorists are on 9 points apparently - which says they DID NOT slow down. Yet nobody stopped them from speeding, they let them get on with it, so they could pay more speeding tax!! :lol:


Most people then. Happy now?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:41 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Quote:
If you drove at the speed limit like you are supposed to then you would notice that you are speeding by by looking out of the windows - that big bit of glass in front of you. You know when you are speeding.

Actually at best you could only tell within a few MPH what your exact speed would be. It takes a Laser rangefinder, or a photograph with lines on the road to judge your EXACT speed.
What you CAN tell by watching "out the glass" is whether you can see a potential hazard, and whether your speed is low enough to negate it, or if you need to take more action - braking, sound horn, etc., to neutralise the hazard.


If you look at your speedo every now and again you can maintain a steady speed without being obsessed.

Besides both times you people have attacked my posts you have stated that you may spot a hazard and slow down. Clearly you people agree with me that speed is dangerous. Thank you.

Why do you people nit-pick? I am making general points not absolute statements.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:44 
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mosis wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
itdontgo wrote:
Speed cameras are there for your safety and my safety.


So they say. Shame it doesn't work.


That's funny - I thought they stopped people from speeding, and thus, driving dangerously.


But they are not are they?

They are not changin behaviour - it seem worse overall und even if they are at 30 mph - they do not stop or slow for hazard either.


Quote:
That's certainly the impression I've got from the 10,000 plus speeders I've encountered in my lifetime, as they zoom up to my rear and I see their faces full of anger and frustration in my rear view mirror.
Pardon me for not going over the speed limit just because THEY'RE in a hurry!


If you meet that many people on same road as you - they would be at your bumper because you would be in one hell of aA Gridlock....

Und isf they are catching up to you ... are you one of these who do 40 mph regardless of what speed limit ? NSL / motorway - whatever... :roll:

Because I set the cruiser to 28 mph und n body tail gate me in Carlisle, Penrith, Preston (well ist one case - pulled into garage forecourt und watched the Gatso nab him - am ashamed to say - I "engineered" it as he was pillock from hell und ist only person who manage to stir up feeling of anger.) Und even in Manchester - when down there - not come across many I think too close - und I am especially vigilant over what ist behind - German test ist very precise on mirror checks und judging speed of what ist following or looking to overtake...und I was rear ended whilst stationary in traffic jam - at highest speed ... he was ill - had a clear run at me by freakcircumstance...saw him coming... und no "get out clause =-either."


Thus am always always aware of what ist behind to three car back at any one time of drive... und ist not hapenning to me at frequency you describe - so this lead me to think you deliberately drive well below limit - und ist test failure ... und ist also something which can earn you points as "iust not driving with due considertation to the other road users"

Und you can check that out - ist in Highway Code und the Road Traffic Act which can be viewed on line :wink:

Th

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Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 17:54 
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itdontgo wrote:
smeggy wrote:
itdontgo wrote:
I'd love to spend all afternoon arguing with a load of arrogant people who will only ever see this subject from one point of view
but I have far better things to do with my time. This will be my last post

The irony :D


In my posts I have said that I can see why people dont like speed cameras and why they are good. That's seeing both sides of the arguement. You just see them as bad - the way you want to.

Actually you are wrong. I used to be pro-camera until I heard the case against; that prompted me to do my own research - what I found shocked and converted me.
Now my views are well substantiated and I can easily justify them, not something anyone from the pro-camera camp can lay a claim to; the arguments from the pro-camera camp do not stand up to scrutiny. I pride myself on being able to listen to both sides of an argument and I’ve unashamedly gone against the anti-camera flow several times.

Anyway, instead of commenting on my personal stance, how about replying to my previous post with some substance; until you do that I cant view you as having considered both sides of the case.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 18:04 
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I'm a convert. Cameras are for milking the motorists to fund the police who are all corrupt.

I know whats safe and whats not and who do the police think they are to tell me anything.

Just think my speeding tickets paid for the war in Iraq. I have blood on my hands.

As a respectable citizen who never breaks the law I can drive as I like because its the uninsured scumbags who have accidents.

Well I'm glad you boys put me on the right track. I'm off to see how quick my car goes. I wont be back.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 18:20 
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mosis wrote:
Do you get points on your licence when caught by cameras? (I don't know as I'm not sad enough to speed all the time, or any of the time for that matter). If so, you would lose your licence for a while eventually, so that would surely stop you from speeding?



You would be amazed at the number who lose licence for drink driving und then continue to do so after serving out the ban.

Und what if the driver was banned for 5 pings at 34 mph? Road surfaces, size und choice of tyre all impact on speed und perception of this speed. You cannot discerm between 29 mph und 33 mph as you are humna being with human foot und nerve cells.

You try my yoga - ahave the tree pose.... I can acutally hold this without a waiver for a good five minutes - but am trained ice skater und ski-er from age two. (und even in the medal routines - they are not holding these for long as long free programme ist 4 und bit minutes :wink: )

But your body cannot hold und will fluctuate its pressure - und this ist why I can get away with saying you are not being honest with yourself if you say you never speed or always discern the slight change.

Ist this slight change in tempo at wrong moment und if you were so confident - you would not be glancing at speedo every 10 seconds. I do not need to - have useful gaadget on dash... I set to alert me if overspeed und if in serious infest area - cruise control ist switched on.


Quote:
So in other words, we have ANOTHER 'driver' who can't even maintain a constant, steady speed...

You shouldn't be driving, or you're lying, because nobody is that incompetent. Checking the speedo every few seconds doesn't "require a large amount of attention" unless you're incredibly slow witted? Which are you?


Elsewhere you say you check speedo every 10 seconds. As said - truly comptetently should not need to - can "feel" speed to certain level.

have fair idea of my speed at any one time - am usually within 10% range on urbans. Only time I glance ist to make doubly sure no creep up to danger level near the scam... und in soem areas here - you are on top of them as soon as you leave the higher limit. Ist then why useful gadget giving that early "bleep bleep" ensure the smoothest slow from 60 to 40 as passing the lolly. :wink: :wink: :wink:

Quote:

Can't you hear the engine and tell when you're speeding up or slowing down?


Most modern well brought up cars are smooth und sleeky sound.. it does not show. Especially in these insulated machines.. with the leather seats und all the trimming.


The Stag, the Moggie who have grow "old disgracefully" :hehe: (mine are male :hehe: one - he sound like Satchmo ;) ) in the family are sassy, jazzy sing the bluesy types und the Trabi sound like the Ozzy Osbourne duet with Madame Edith of allo allo. :rotfl:

Quote:
Can't you see the surroundings moving past you at a different speed, and then know that you should check your speedo to see if you're now going any faster or slower?


Some of the roads in our area switch drasticaally from 40 to 60 mph und for mere yards too... :roll:

But let us face facts.. a lot of these pings are occurring close to limit changes - und we have lots of photos of mobiles und fixed at these points und on gradual gradients where a driver will pick up speed without noting it particularly.

Quote:
Still, it's a nice try at bait and switch again: "I can't check my speedo because I'm too busy 'concentrating'". I really believe that - NOT.
You don't check your speedo because you don't CARE what the speed limit, you think YOU should be able to make up your own rules.


You are still scared of something or not feeling speed if you really need to check every 10 seconds :wink:

We use COAST - und I sugggest you look up how IG spell it out. :wink:


Quote:

Although it would be possible to drive well below the limit (eg 15 in a 30), this is likely to be illegal, embrarassing, and likely to raise other questions.


Strawman. What has this got to do with anything?[/quote]


That you are not considering others or are perhaps not fit to drive... :roll:

Quote:
Quote:

Quote:
Could it be possible that they are selfish, aggressive, nasty people who think the world revolves around them?
That's certainly the impression I've got from the 10,000 plus speeders I've encountered in my lifetime, as they zoom up to my rear and I see their faces full of anger and frustration in my rear view mirror.
Pardon me for not going over the speed limit just because THEY'RE in a hurry!


That isn't speeding, it's tailgaiting, and I agree with you about it.


It IS speeding, because if they weren't speeding, they would never have caught up with my car, which always stays right ON the speed limit...

Do I have to explain everything?


As pointed out already - it does depend on your driving und your own observation of these limits.

I do not know if you are driving at 40 mph in a 50.60 mph - but it would certainly accoutn for their cathching you up :wink:

Und if you drive at 25 mph... I once drove a pal's Cavalier to garage. She was ill - drove it on my insurance perk which allow me to drive on third party. :wink: Ist a 11 year old car - good condition. Speedo read 30 mph - felt slow to me - but stayed at 30 mph. Mad Doc had followed me in his car und ask me what was so wrong with the car as had to drive it at 22 mph.

We mention to garage - but would mena new speedo und they could not guarantee as this ist "non computerised doo-dahed car. Pal had one fit later - seems OK now und she has useful gadget on dash as back up.. :wink:


But we did take this car on track... per the RA - was 8 mph difference on speedo rising to 15 mph at high speeds - when speedo read 80 mph - car was travelling 65 mph. ....

Ist possible then that your car may be doing this. :wink:

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 18:29 
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itdontgo wrote:
I'm a convert. Cameras are for milking the motorists to fund the police who are all corrupt.

I know whats safe and whats not and who do the police think they are to tell me anything.

Just think my speeding tickets paid for the war in Iraq. I have blood on my hands.

As a respectable citizen who never breaks the law I can drive as I like because its the uninsured scumbags who have accidents.

Well I'm glad you boys put me on the right track. I'm off to see how quick my car goes. I wont be back.

I know I should avoid ad hominem (and in this case I really don't need to) but you are such a muppet. Please be true to your word and dont come back!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 18:34 
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itdontgo wrote:
Well I'm glad you boys put me on the right track. I'm off to see how quick my car goes. I wont be back.


Well at least the speed cameras won't stop you.

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Last edited by Dixie on Sun Mar 12, 2006 18:46, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 18:42 
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Last edited by Steve on Sun Mar 12, 2006 18:49, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 18:42 
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Nah! stick around mate you are in dire need of the education.


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