Safe Speed Forums

Things have changed, yes. But inexperienced drivers have been having accidents for decades, and whilst the faster cars of today make it possible for a young tearaway to have a high-energy accident, those specific safety features combined with the better design of newer cars also makes it possible for the inexperienced-but-attempting-to-be-sensible driver to avoid having an accident that they *would* have had in an older car. It might not be hypocritical to suggest it based on a full discussion of all the points, but it did feel pretty hypocritical in the context of that particular discussion.

And where does it end? If we start saying 17-19 year olds aren't sufficiently mature to drive, what other things might we then raise the age limit on...

One thought that's just crossed my mind. If someone learns to drive in their teens, there's at least some chance a parent may be able to impart a few valuable bits of driving advice (I know mine did), or that the new driver will spend some time gaining experience with a parent as passenger rather than a friend egging them on. If the age limit is increased, more people will start their driving after they've left home, and what would replace the parental input then?

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Chris

I think people need to realise that maturity isn't something that just happens, it's the result of experiences.

If, for example, some bright spark decided that 17-19yr olds were too immature to drive, then they'd stay immature longer.

Maturity is all about learning. Realising what matters and what doesn't. It's a sense of perspective on life. Denying teenagers the use of the roads would "save" teenage lives, but instead there would be some very bored, frustrated teenagers moping around immobile and some pathetic 20something drivers instead. Society as a whole would suffer as many would-be drivers would take longer to mature.

It's yet another example of attempted control having the wrong effect.

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The entire pre 18 ( and some would say post 18) education system is biased against learning. It is all about passing a test. There are thousands of young people that think an A level means they understand something. I see them arrive at uni and you quickly realise most of them have all the comprehension of a plank.

For today's young people there is little hope of them affording a place of their own because of stupid property prices. What are they going to do with all that spare cash exactly? Those that come out of uni are up to their eyes in debt so are probably going around in dodgy bangers and the ones that didn't are swanning around in brand new cars. They are now better off than they were before so it is not surprising they spend their money on loose cars, expensive holidays and fancy women.

The parents also have to take some responsibility. A lad near my parents killed several people in a high speed over taking incident. He's got broken bones and will probably not walk for a year. This same lad is known to everyone locally and is a complete moron who drives around at silly speeds with no regard for anyone else. He has written off several cars including the one he killed people in or with. His parents have happily been buying them for him! There seems to be this culture developing with these pig ignorant people who are not prepared to take responsibility for anything they do or anything their children do and will then promptly go and blame there not being a speed camera there!

There was a twist in this story on a radio news item i heard yesterday - Brake were proclaiming that this was an excellent case for "spy in the sky" technology, ensuring that cars could not be driven above the speed limit. This according to their weird logic would reduce these accidents dramatically.
Nothing about education - teaching youngesters newly passed how to read a road, judge the camber, look for an extra twist in a corner, a blind spot , or how to poisition a car to remove /reduce potential blind spot --etc etc etc --what to do etc -- all about what they should not do.

HMM - 40 Limit, safe at 20 or thereabouts, if no one olse on it trying to take it on wrong side of road - young kids thinks that
limit is 40 - so safe ----young kid RIP.

Thats the safe road Brake would have us driving down.But would they have the integretaty and guts to admit that their logic is wrong.And how many young kids would have to die before it was proved wrong.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

I am sure it is related to the reduction in BIB.

I am also sure I was stopped as a youngster just for being a youngster. Sometimes there was something wrong like a light out and sometimes there wasn't.

But and it's a big BUT, I seem to remember having great respect for BIB and a telling off by the side of the road had a great effect on me. I am not so sure that would have the same effect these days.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

Some letters on this subject in today's Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 14,00.html

Do folks feel that making the Pass Plus course mandatory would help matters, or would it simply tend to reinforce the confidence of the already over-confident?

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I took the Pass Place course and found it was a farce it ended up being little more than six hours accompanied driving. I took it as I wanted to get some motorway instruction, didn't get anything usefull. IMO it's little more than a money spinner.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Reading back, Twister makes a good point - we've had young drivers since time began - we all were once - tell me that we didn't take chances through ignorance /inexperience etc.I lived in a small village where such indescretions got noticed - others didn't.
The difference between then and now is the methods of policing - then in the towns most probably a trafpol would pull you up for a chat , in my area the local Sgt would ,and did pull you up , in car or walking down the street, with some comment to let you know that he knew and did not approve.
Now adays - if they go mad, but stay within the limit - who notices, who pulls them up, who tries to show them the error of their ways or the ultimate result - PC Gatso can't, and his human counterpart is either too busy or non existant, or sports a HI VIZ vest with the letters PCSO on the back, and little authority or knowledge to impart.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

the AA Motoring Trust have cropped up a couple of times recently in the media. The were quoted in a recent Scamera PR in the local paper supporting the increase in camera use.....







time to chuck in my AA card

I have been on the AA trust web site and asked for an explanation of this statement. Others please do the same.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Can sort of understand it's a form of NIMBYism, a village local to me was screaming about motorists screaming through thier village and demanded a permanent camera, police turn up and monitor, most of those caught were village residents.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Just posted much of the same idea on http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6589


speed man slows traffic - "are speeders villagers caught several times or passers through caught once"

Gizmo--can you pass on AA trust web site addr??

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

http://www.aatrust.com/

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Speed camera policy Kills

Gizmo,
I think the attitude of the AA is typical of the woolly headed wrong thinking, that exists about this whole issue of young driver death rates. The AA, the police, the safety partenships all now doing the rounds as informed opinion, all blaming the young drivers since this simple statistic came out
I firmly believe we have indirectly generated this carnage to our young, through our tollerance of the stupid dangerous traffic schemes that pollute our roads and destroy positive attitudes.
How many of us in our youth, did things that were crazy, answer all of us. We, got away with our lunacy because the environment we were in, was tolerant of our folly. We didn't have to negotiate hard over raised curbed roads back then, today they are everywhere just waiting to catch out the inexperienced. There weren't the crazy chicanes in places you least expect to find them back then. There were escape options back then, you could take to the grass verge and not run into a double pole sign saying safety camera, which is what populates the verges today.
We have allowed the idiots, who are supposed to look after roads to put these hazards up, standing ever ready, ready for the young inexperienced drivers to run into and die.
They are responsible for this carnage and we have allowed them to get away with this crime. All this done in the name of "safety". Nothing could be further from the truth.
I wholly agree with Paul, safe driving is about creating the right attitude. Safe driving is in the mind, it is not going to be found in endless futile roadside messages, ever narrower, confusing, lumped, humped, chicaned, excessively constricted, traffic light overloaded streets.
When will the people responsible "get it"
I am also reviewing my AA membership.
RJ

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Too much of our money is being wasted on supposed road safety improvements that are actually making driving more dangerous.