Safe Speed Forums

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM

Looks like CCTV footage or camcorder from a building showing people trying to make a right turn on a busy multi-lane urban T junction.

Quite an interesting watch. It's amazing that there appear to be no rules but at the same time everyone understands the rules and no-one has a collision.

Come & watch the kids racing at Moto-X.

They all leave the gate at the same time, and as they approach the first corner they are all going for the same 4ft of track at the same.
Average speeds as the enter the corner are around 30ish, and by the time they exit the corner they are back up to 55ish and the gap between each bike (front, rear & sides) at this time is smaller than the length of the average human penis.

Likewise, none of them come a cropper and this riding style continues for quite some time until the gaps between certain riders slowly start to increase from the rest of the flock.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

What I find most interesting is not so much the collision avoidance, but the flow management.

With no apparent rules or priorities the traffic flow regulates itself so that despite traffic arriving from 3 directions none of them ever really comes to a standstill. Whenever there is a peak in the traffic flow from one direction all the others seem to automatically back off to accomodate it.

Clearly this isn't planned or intentional, but seems to be a natural consequence of the lack of formal regulation.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

I suppose it's similar to the thread about how removing all road markings makes it safer.

The flow management is interesting. About the only rule there seems to be that might is right, but when enough of the little bikes have built up they can act like a single unit and push through, thus the junction becomes self regulating.

Also, with no lights or other control mechanisms, the most efficient use of the available road space is being made, since there will always be someone using it if someone needs to be there.

Would such an arrangement work over here? Probably not since people are too far gone down the path of tight regulation and notions of priority.

The only other rule I can see going on there is that if a vehicle is in front of you then you must yield, regardless of what it is. It seems to be sufficient to prevent collisions. At the end of the day do we really need any rule beyond "don't drive into people" if people are clever enough to be able to figure out how to actually implement the rule in a useful manner.

That's exactly it, isn't it? The only rule is that the greatest mass gets priority, be it a single bus, five cars or twenty bikes!

That is so incredibly simple yet effective I feel it'a almost an epiphany! A whole system runs at peak efficiency simply because of two subconscious perception by all the participants. Whichever line of traffic has the greatest mass will barge it's way through and thereby restore the equilibrium, BUT it will do so in a non-aggressive way because all the other participants inherently accept the right it has to do so.

I guess there are just two rules:

1. I give way to something larger than me,
2. Close proximity with another like-minded user leads to an assumption of coalescence, for the purposes of 1.

Is it as simple as "herding instinct"?

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Been to India a couple of times. Driving is unbelievable. I had a suicidal taxi ride where the driver went up an the pavement (if thats what you could call it) through a crowd of people to get around a set of lights on red.

The horn was in constant use

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Speed camera policy Kills

That video is amazing. No major holdups, people going the wrong way and literally breaking all our rules and yet no accidents and no apparent road rage.

It would never work in this country all sorts of people would end up in hospital from road rage.

It is pretty much how pedestrians would behave without any barriers. A sort of give way in turn.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

I've been there two, and for a fun experience try being in the back of of an auto rickshaw (3 wheel moped thing with two seats side by side at the back going down the wrong side of a dual carriageway because the driver could make better progress that way...

Or out of town, the loading on lorries is unregulated, and we saw the consequences of minimal lights and bad loading. A lorry carrying grain had used a very large tarpaulin to extend the volume significantly - imagine a cup with a carrier bag in it - put in a cup of rice and it is fine - put in two cups, and the bag holds in the extra if you hold it up, now imaging 3 or 4 cups worth, and the bag hangs out over the side of the cup significantly and is not particularly stable - well that was this lorry. It had been driving along at night (no street lights) and a bus coming the other way had clipped the tarpaulin right by the driver pushing in the bus by a few feet, and the bus had been deflected off into a tree on the other side of the road - a bad enough accident in itself, however the impact had also displaced the load leaving a pile 6' high that the following truck had gone over like a giant speed bump and tipped onto its side. Much of the problem is the same as in some Islamic countries - if you are fated to die, then so be it, otherwise carry on regardless.

Yep, quite amazing! However, I don't think this is India, more like West Bromwich!

But seriously, the first thing I noticed was the lack of congestion! Very free-flowing! But, in the event of a prang, I can imagine it would be a nightmare trying to ascertain who was at fault (if they bother with such trivialities).

It would never work over here unless the LA/Gvt could cashcam it...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Why does it work?

There are vehicles exiting from the road bottom right on BOTH sides of the road - passing traffic turning in on both sides.

It's also obvious that nobody gets upset if their progress is impeded - they merely find a way around or wait.

It's similar to the French on motorways.
If you come up behind a slower moving vehicle, you pull out to pass it. If YOU are coming up behind a vehicle whicch suddenly pulls out to pass a slower vehicle in front, you simply slow, then as soon as they are back in, you carry on your way.
The trick is you pull out and PULL IN, and you dont expect the car behind you to lean on the horn, or get agitated.
Consequence? No lane hoggers who wont pull in in case they cant get out again, so lane two is always available to pass - sooner or later.

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Is the way you drive a national trait? Or just a sympton of the way you're taught? Are we too regimented? Germany has good road discipline and they are fairly regimented.

Aren't road deaths in India huge as a percentage of the population?

We have too many signs telling us what to do without allowing us to sort it out for ourselves. There are no road markings or signs in the video but I get the impression that if there are any accidents at that spot they would be minor shunts. Does thinking you have the right of way tend to make you more aggressive?

I think I'll go back to bed now my head hurts.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

Daily i have the (non) pleasure of one of these telling me about driving-
i see them regularly on the M1 , EITHER GOING TO lONDON or coming back , and hogging L2 and without being racially biased ( 25 years ag i lived and worked in africa , with africans and asian support workers and had many mates with both) their driving leaves a lot to be desired.
If they goit a UK licence - hw the f**k did they get it , or if they got it on an asian one - the regs need to be tightened up.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Indian licences can't be exchanged - here is a list of countries which have reciprocal licence arrangements:

Australia, Monaco, Barbados, New Zealand, British Virgin Islands, Republic of Korea, Canada, Singapore, Falkland Islands, South Africa, Hong Kong, Switzerland, Japan, Zimbabwe

+ all EU countries of course.

The motorcycle test in Cyprus was ludicrously easy (don't know if it still is) yet licences were, and still are, transferable to the UK. Many personnel stationed out there took the opportunity to acquire a motorcycle license, and it was quite common to have visiting personnel ring you up before they arrived to book a test so they could take it in the couple of weeks they were out there.
I knew a chap who passed his test simply by riding to the test centre. The examiner asked him how he'd go there. "I rode from Akrotiri" he replied. "In which case, you can obviously ride the bike" said the examiner, and handed him a pass certificate. The most anyone was ever asked to do was ride up to a nearby roundabout and back.
Once they had the licence, 1000 cc of instant death here we come
Use of a helmet is actually law in Cyprus but is seldom enforced, most riders carry the thing over their arm - great for protecting their elbows (well one of them) in the event of a crash.

I spent some time in Iran a few years ago. The video reminded me of the way they drove. The cars were nearly all Paykans (otherwise know as the Hillman Hunter here) and the only bit you could be sure would work properly was the horn. In most of the cars the seatbelts were cut off and tied in a knot to hang on to.

You probably think that two up on a bike would be enough, but we saw numerous instances of five and six people on a Honda stepthrough. There would be the parents and one child on the seat, one child standing on the floor, one sitting on the handlebars and on on the carrier at the back.