Safe Speed Forums

"safe" is subjective and involves competence

An 80 year old may feel safe doing 25 mph in a 70 limit. Dosen't make him a competent driver but instead a hazard.

Are you a safe driver to the outside world or just driving to the limits of your competence...that is not the same.

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Speed camera policy Kills

But you have admitted that you drive at 70 in a 70 (at times) while at the same time constantly bang on a about reducing speed, shortening stopping distances. When driving at 70 your argument dictates that you slow down.

According to your argument is is much safer to drive at 60 than it is at 70 (all other things being equal) yet you do not do it.

That is why I feel your argument is not only fatuous, it is hypocritical.

If you want to argue the toss on section 124 the actual quote is..

It is easy to miss the point if you quote out of context. So you believe not appropriate is that you don't feel like it. You would still fail your test if you don't use the speed limits appropriatly. From your history you should already know this....or maybe you have forgot..

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Speed camera policy Kills

Indeed, that is a good point. This is the politics of driving. It seems that there is a band of speed, with an optimum point somewhere inside it. The top of the band is easy to identify. The highway code does that. The lower is a matter of choice, and a good driver will make a good choice.

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I stole this .sig

On the other hand, I in no way endorse ageism in general. It is entirely possible that an 80 year old individual could be less of a risk to the road using community overall than a twenty year old, due to greater experience and less miles per annum, even if his or her faculties might not be as good as they once were.

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I stole this .sig

And not only grandiose, but ridiculous?

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I stole this .sig

You're quite right that there's an optimum speed, but wrong about the top of the band - very often the optimum speed is well above the posted limit, although also very often well below it.
It's simple, really.
Above the optimum speed for the conditions you have an increased risk of not being able to deal with an emergency. (although not as much as you would have us believe)
Below the optimum speed you have an increased risk of encountering random hazards, simply because you're on the road for a longer time.

Wildy recalls thread from PH site - (ages ago now - about March - she thinks .....)

Anyway she says the bloke posting the original topic on there was annoyed because his sister or girlfriend ... whoever.. had failed her driving test for "not making progress and driving at the speed limit."

Eldest son has test booked already - about two weeks off. He has been advised to apply HC tip 124/q25 which is another aspect of COAST. - the bit about adapting your driving to road conditions -

C

taking the road and conditions into account, and being considerate - not letting yourself get all hot and bothered over the numpty in front and behind - not easy as this character is probably "burstingworks"
Refraining from praying out loud in high pitched voice as you meet BW on the road ahead of you - making slow progress. Or muttering "twazak" when you come across him

O

Observing the junction, especially unmarked ones where no-one has right of way, the line of parked cars and the pedestrian .... and the Gatso Trying not to stick two fingers up at the chap in his talivan as you drive by and also advising the kids (aged 6 and 4) in the back seat not to blow that raspberry at him as we drive past......

Observing "bustinworks" ahead of you and taking defensive action .... Then pulling over to calm down after driving behind him

A


Anticipating the child running out of park, drunken pedestrian staggering out of the pub, basingwerk not making progress in front of you ......

Anticipating the numpty (bustingworks) pulling out of his junction in front of you, and anything else which old BW may do....

S

Keep two second rule at least.

Slow down and hold back if numpty pulls in front of you - or overtakes you and then drives like basingwerk "in a hurry" in front of you

Drive at appropriate speed for road and traaffic conditions, and even adjust to below speed limit if conditions so dictate.

T

Allow enough time for your journey.

Check talivan TIME tables and try to time your journey so as not to coincide with that scallywag we know and love on here who will just hold us all up even when he is "in a hurry"

Seem to recall reading about OAP getting prosecuted for driving at 20 mph on dual carriageway and causing hazard to traffic.




Wildy's father is extremely competent motorist as his brothers, and in their hey-day - they were well known on the rally circuits around Europe.

But - they are first to admit they are not as sharp as they were in twenties...

My own parents still drive - but they will only drive the mega tour abroad if one of us is prepared to drive with them .... in case of accident, wrong turn, whatever..... Their logic? Just that they feel safer following one of us down to wherever....

The band of speed extends from the speed limit downwards. If the speed is above the limit, then it is illegal, and anyone driving at it is likely to get pinged. Everybody has signed up to this through the political system, and to drive, you are legally obliged to keep to the limits. If you don't agree with the level at a cetain site, then campaign for this to be changed to something more to your liking, or for the process to be changed to something more rational, but do not expect the agents of law enforcement to ignore the limit and let you pass; they are obliged to use thier resources to enforce the law of the land, whatever it says.

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I stole this .sig

No way, I drive fast enough not to annoy people. My goal (when driving, anyway) is not to bug people, but to a) avoid getting pinged and b) be safe. To do both, I have to drive within the limit, or I could end up like those poor people on the 'IF YOU ARE BEING PROSECUTED, READ THIS' page!

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I stole this .sig

I don't agree that that is technically correct. The Police must allocate their scarce resources to enforce the law in the public interest. They have to decide to enforce some offences and ignore others. They have to set priorities. We all expect (demand?) more resources to be allocated to missing kids compared with a few stolen paperclips.

The Police should enforce road laws in proper and reasonable proportion to road safety risks.

There are very likely hundreds of laws that are sensibly ignored on a daily basis.

And at the end of the day:

The competent and careful actions of a majority of responsible people should obviously be considered legal.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Isn't this what Safespeed is doing? And what you are arguing against?

There's just no pleasing some people!!

There you go again, totally ignoring the big issue and latching onto a minor point.

Your "obey the law and you'll be OK" attitude doesn't wash with me, like it didn't wash with millions of South African blacks - who were routinely arrested and imprisoned for contravening the merest of technicalities.
It didn't wash with the Jews in Hitler's Germany, nor the so-called communists in McCarthy's America, nor, indeed, Galileo, when he was forced to recant what he knew to be true.

Nor will it wash with a Bristol woman who lost her licence by being pinged 4 times in one day - on a road which had been 40mph for decades, and which they had just changed to 30mph by removing the 40 signs.

Nor will it wash with the thousands of people who have been killed or injured in road accidents, because everything except speed is being ignored.

Bad laws are bad laws, and should be scrapped.

In any event, this website is not about how we should obey the law - there's no shortage of websites about that - it's purpose being rather to analyse and point out the flawed logic and science on which that law is based.
If you have nothing to contribute to that, I would strongly suggest that you find some other forum to bother - if you continue with such posts here then you may find yourself being ignored by those of us who are growing tired of wasting our breath.

Your comparison of a minor law like speed limits with the conditions in old South Africa or Hitler’s Germany is odious. You may not have noticed, in your rant, that this is a public forum about safe speeds, which is a public issue.

You are knowledgeable, yet you zoom along (as you admit) at over 86 mph, which means that you must know the risks, so you have yourself, and yourself alone, to blame. Furthermore, you admit that you did this because of a feeble exclude 'I would have been late'! However late you are, for the time being and until the law is changed, you should try your best to obey a binding law that has been brought in by proper public discussion.

I might have some sympathy this Bristol woman who lost her licence by being pinged 4 times in one day on a road which they had just changed to 30mph by removing the 40 signs, but for you to compare that to life and death in a concentration camp, or Soweto, shows that you have so sense of scale whatsoever. Bad laws are indeed bad laws, and in this country, unlike those places, we have a time honoured process to deal with that. You are free to campaign against cameras and I am free to campaign, here and elsewhere, for them. Good luck to you, Pete317.

Until such time as you can give me a convincing alternative, I will continue to remind you and others of the legal obligations. As far as I know, most posters here are not in favour of abandoning speed limits, nor enforcement. If you object to that, you may wish to find a club which openly advocates breaking the speed limit, rather than this web site, which is not a “Speed Kids Only” club, as far as I know

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I stole this .sig

Well, you called me "basingberk", in your previous post, so what do you expect?? Sticks and stone can break my bones...

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I stole this .sig

One of my rare days off today ! Actually - Wildy had some "worrying" twinges - so on stand by in case!

So keeping my mind amused here.....

So - you drive at the speed limit and possibly significantly below it....when you see the Gatso doo-dah Told you - it's "Pavlov Dog" effect. Does nothing to promote actual safety.

You say you suffer a lot from tailgating too. Is this because you are "below speed limit all the time" .

We are noticing significant increase in this up here - Wildy had one the other week. Tootling along at 27 mph along an A road chock full of hazards - pelicans, cycle lane, T-Junctions and bollards in middle of road. No Gatsos on this particular stretch - it is placed a mile or so further on at point where the speed limit changes - just before it opens up to a 40 mph and not built up - but speed was safe for conditions. We are against the speed camera - but we do choose what seems to us to be the best speed for conditions - and the whole point is - you are adjust to conditions. Since we apply what we call COAST anyway - we do indeed drive at safest speed for conditions in any case. And of course - we have the gadget which not only bleeps at the camera in good time - but flashes up the speed limit being enforced so that we can check and "reign in" if necessary. Which is why we say - the prats are preaching the wrong message here! It is not "Speed per se" which is dangerous - but the actual standard of the driving by a minority

Anyway - this guy decides to overtake just on approach to bollards - one of the twins was in passenger seat at time. Wildy copped him, slowed and pulled in to give him a little more space, and my second son says the twazak still just missed collliding with the bollards... where there were people waiting to cross. He did slam on the brakes further up at the Gatso point.... This road was in LanCASH£re - home of the yellow Gatso forest, and the speed courses...

But this was driving which a BiB would have pulled and maybe given warning about. A Gatso is hardly likely to improve his driving - indeed he failed to observe the bollards and the people standing there waiting to cross - but he sure as heck spotted the Gatso.

Which means - we are in danger of training people to look for one hazard only here - grey and yellow boxes.

And before you say "Hide 'em!" - they will still drive looking for this one hazard instead of concentrating on the real hazards - whether we hide them or not.

The Swiss slam on the anchors each time they see a wheelie bin!

Which is why Pete and rest of us are against the wretched things - they compromise road safety instead of aiding it.

We should really be concentrating on improving actual skills by whatever means available - driver information adverts, tips, publicity - instead of focusing on one thing only - SPEED!

Quite like "Babblingwerks" myself

Ings? They zap your car before you reach the 40 mph lollipop! The van is stationed just yards within the change. I would say very lucrative on tourist traffic which has slowed to 45/46 mph by lollipop and continuing to slow. Trouble is - they get pinged early and the limit is enforced for about the mile or so through the village.



Councils seem to decide on this. In case of Ings- 7 men in a pub decided this limit. NSL had been in place for years without any incident - but some busybodies got knickers in twist and campaigned for lower limit...

And there are the dangerous cycle lanes ....... no-one wanted them.

No-one asked the residents about the speed limit of a 40mph road downgraded to 30 mph. In fact - first they knew about it was when the red oblong and a talivan appeared

And then we have other things: pin numbers on credit cards for example. No-one surveyed me for my opinion and I have not received any darned number - as my credit/debit cards have not expired yet. So - at the supermarket I was asked for a number I do not have - and was asked to key this in full view of other customers. Not rocket science to work out that a wide boy might get this number, follow me around in hope I drop my receipt upon which they have printed my card number (again without my consent) and then rob me blind ......I am a doctor - Hell! you could not forge my signature if you tried!

Same with cloning - there are people who do not just want to clone embryos to treat motor neurone disease and Alzheimers......there are some who want to clone PEOPLE!

Call me old fashioned - but somehow - the conventional way of creating babies is a lot more fun - and as Papa of 4 and one on way - had lots of practice !

No-one consulted me about the hike in my NIC, indirect taxes, direct taxes, council taxes, war in Iraq, hiring of plasticine policemen, pretend teachers and foreign nursy girls who cannot speak English either.

No-one consulted me about the freezing of budgets either, limit of drugs I can prescribe either.....

So NO! We have not signed up to this in the political system. We voted for someone to represent our interests - and MPs in general do not hold surgeries of any real significance to give time to air views either.

In any case - most will only spend time on things which promote their own selfish self interest!



Enforce a silly law and respect is lost. In many cases - they are nitpicking - by siting these at speed limit change and not where the real dangers lie.


We are also not deploying our resources properly by enforcing an speed limit in only the money making spots.

Nor are we spending wisely by investing in more cash cows when the money should be spent on EDUCATION and SAFETY INITIATIVES on the telly!

We have. You just haven't listened.

Oh, what the hell, I'm out of here.. I've got better things to waste my time on.

Cheers, all