Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Tue Jun 09, 2026 02:54

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:37 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Søren,

You've arrived here and been extremely vocal in your condemnation of my work. If you can argue the issues rather than engage in personal attacks you will be very welcome indeed.

But I wonder what your background (perhaps your job?) is? What do you do for a living?

Why have you got strong opinions on these subjects, and what do you base them on?

It would be useful to understand your experience. Please enlighten us.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 14:48 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 19:41
Posts: 201
Location: North East Wales
I'm curious also - a great deal of stress / anger comes across in your postings - hope you are not like that 24/7 :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 13:43 
Offline
Banned
Banned

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 12:47
Posts: 2291
Richard C wrote:
I'm curious also - a great deal of stress / anger comes across in your postings - hope you are not like that 24/7 :)


At least Søren is awake to danger, which is more than I can say about most of the 'thumb in bum, mind in neutral' brigade of speeders and tailgaters on our roads. I don't which is worse, the thumb in bum brigade, or the selfish speed freaks. Any opinions on that?

_________________
I stole this .sig


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 20:48 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 15:05
Posts: 1225
Location: Glasgow
basingwerk wrote:
At least Søren is awake to danger, which is more than I can say about most of the 'thumb in bum, mind in neutral' brigade of speeders and tailgaters on our roads. I don't which is worse, the thumb in bum brigade, or the selfish speed freaks. Any opinions on that?


You are clearly pleased with yourself having come up with that phrase, Basin. Shame it makes no sense next to the generic and oversimplified term 'speeders' and therefor isn't catching on. In fact, I think it applies more to the individuals who blithely follow a speed limit because they have been told to, and have no knowledge or consideration of judging conditions and varying speeds accordingly (and that means well below the limit when necessary!!)

It is interesting that you also mention being 'awake to danger'. It isn't a day-to-day thing for me to be driving hundreds of miles in one trip, but I usually make 2-3 very long car journeys a year and usually look forward to them. All these journeys have been 100% accident and incident free.

However, for the latest journey I took advantage of my first vehicle with cruise control, being mindful of a recent fixed penalty my wife had collected for a technical infringement (I'd give you the details and while 99% of people would agree with me that she was not causing any danger you'd still take me to task so I won't bother), and knowing the route I was taking would be relatively traffic free - I did it all at the speed limits where possible.

It was the worst journey of my life. I normally enjoy the stimulation of driving - varying my speed with the conditions and being mindful of forward observation etc. but on this occasion I was distracted, bored and IMHO considerably more dangerous as I felt I could have fallen asleep at any minute. An example of fear of retribution for technical infringements making me a less safe driver.

Awake to the dangers??!!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 14:41 
Offline
User

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:58
Posts: 46
Location: UK
SafeSpeed wrote:
Søren,

You've arrived here and been extremely vocal in your condemnation of my work. If you can argue the issues rather than engage in personal attacks you will be very welcome indeed.

But I wonder what your background (perhaps your job?) is? What do you do for a living?

Why have you got strong opinions on these subjects, and what do you base them on?

It would be useful to understand your experience. Please enlighten us.


Back yesterday for a few days.

I live in the North East of the Country and I am self employed in retail. I have an interest in road safety and I believe firmly that speed limits should be adhered to.

My philosophy on road safety is simple.

COAST is the main life saver.

Driving is not a difficult task. Most of us can drive to a satisfactory standard. Most of us know and were taught how to drive adequately. We can ‘OAST’ if we want to. The problem is that either through lack of Consideration, Courtesy or Concentration, we don’t do it all the time.

Speed limits are present to protect us from those who forget to use COAST, also for those who have an inflated opinion of their own driving ability, and their ability or desire to concentrate all the time.

Where there is a higher risk of cock up causing a fatality to an innocent, these speed limits should be rigorously enforced 10% +2, eg residential, single carriageway, etc
Speed limits on motorways provide a realistic flow speed with not too much differential between fastest and slowest vehicles. With wagons rightly limited and restricted to lanes one and two, 80mph should be tops. There should be no place for speeds in excess of 90mph at any time on our motorways. I think any enforcement below that should be down to BiB (weather conditions etc.) not cameras, but give cameras free rein above that.

Recent policing has been too soft on speed limits and I applaud efforts to take excess speed and resultant intimidation out of the driving culture.

Towns and villages etc have speed limits for primarily safety but also social reasons. Speeders in these areas should be ASBO candidates.


I have a collision acquired disability which does not restrict my driving or mobility.
My two nephews have serious genetic disability and will not see out their twenties, never mind drive a car.

I am not an angry person. And I don't have a go for the hell of it. If members of my family are publicly described as second class citizens I take offence. I will always attack pointless prejudice.
Quote:
>... that disabled people have one privilege
>over you compared to the privilege of mobility you have over them? I bet
>if they were given the choice, I know which they would choose.


Quote:
If they get one privilege, then another, then another, pretty soon
I'll be a second class citizen brought down to their level. Is that
right? I don't think so.
Where can anyone draw the line?

[snip]
--
Paul Smith
Scotland, UK
http://www.safespeed.org.uk
please remove "XYZ" to reply by email
speed cameras cost lives


There is no place in society for the type of overt prejudice displayed here. And it is relevant to this forum because I believe it is the foundation of the exclusivist theories expounded here.

When I pressed you about it you replied.
Quote:
I questioned the philosophical foundations of disabled parking. No more and no less. I'm proud to question the foundations of beliefs. The most interesting thing to come out of the Usenet thread you cited is that no one was able to define the foundations or the limits of disabled parking provision.

To press you a little further Mr Smith.
    Q1 Do you consider disabled people to be second class citizens?
    Q2 If yes, Why? If no, why the comments, and why no apology either on usenet or here?

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 15:28 
Offline
Suspended
Suspended

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 13:41
Posts: 539
Location: Herts
Quote:
Where there is a higher risk of cock up causing a fatality to an innocent, these speed limits should be rigorously enforced 10% +2, eg residential, single carriageway, etc
.

Majority of accidents happen below the speed limits. Speed is not the cause of accidents.


Quote:
I have a collision acquired disability which does not restrict my driving or mobility.


Who's fault was the accident?

Quote:
My two nephews have serious genetic disability and will not see out their twenties, never mind drive a car.


Cannot see what that has to do with Speed limits, as they have no effect on our genetic make up.


Quote:
Q1 Do you consider disabled people to be second class citizens?


In comparrison to an abled body person?

The answer is in the titles!


Do you work for a living?

Or do us abled bodied equals support you?[/quote]

_________________
Steve


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 15:32 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 17:46
Posts: 823
Location: Saltburn, N. Yorks
And you say you are not an angry person? I live in the North East, too and would not like to cross swords with you. You sound full of bitterness to me...... :cry:


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 15:35 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 13:36
Posts: 1339
You sound fairly moderate compared to the Safety Camera Partnerships, Soren. If you posted that 10% +2 stuff on the T2000 board they would probably accuse you of being a baby killer like the rest of us.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 15:47 
Offline
User

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:58
Posts: 46
Location: UK
bmwk12 wrote:

Do you work for a living?

Or do us abled bodied equals support you?

Can you read?

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 19:23 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 09:16
Posts: 3655
Søren wrote:
Can you read?

Can you comprehend... :?
Soad safety is not a function of speed.
Does sound like you have a chip on your shoulder to me.

_________________
Speed camera policy Kills


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:07 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
Søren wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Søren,

You've arrived here and been extremely vocal in your condemnation of my work. If you can argue the issues rather than engage in personal attacks you will be very welcome indeed.

But I wonder what your background (perhaps your job?) is? What do you do for a living?

Why have you got strong opinions on these subjects, and what do you base them on?

It would be useful to understand your experience. Please enlighten us.


Back yesterday for a few days.

I live in the North East of the Country and I am self employed in retail. I have an interest in road safety and I believe firmly that speed limits should be adhered to.

My philosophy on road safety is simple.

COAST is the main life saver.

Driving is not a difficult task. Most of us can drive to a satisfactory standard. Most of us know and were taught how to drive adequately. We can ‘OAST’ if we want to. The problem is that either through lack of Consideration, Courtesy or Concentration, we don’t do it all the time.

Speed limits are present to protect us from those who forget to use COAST, also for those who have an inflated opinion of their own driving ability, and their ability or desire to concentrate all the time.


Well at least we agree on something! COAST is acquired through experience and training.

Like any skill - has to be practised, perfected and maintained. Bet those of you who now use Excel instead of Lotus123 - would be hard pressed to remember the function keys of Lotus after a while..... if you never use it....

So it is with driving - and why we should invest in driver info adverts, COAST and motivate towards more training if we can.... Do know ABD spokesman is active in his IAM on encouraging youngsters to do t :roll: his test. And so am I! When I get the time to squeeze it in....

Soren wrote:

Where there is a higher risk of cock up causing a fatality to an innocent, these speed limits should be rigorously enforced 10% +2, eg residential, single carriageway, etc
Speed limits on motorways provide a realistic flow speed with not too much differential between fastest and slowest vehicles. With wagons rightly limited and restricted to lanes one and two, 80mph should be tops. There should be no place for speeds in excess of 90mph at any time on our motorways. I think any enforcement below that should be down to BiB (weather conditions etc.) not cameras, but give cameras free rein above that.


But Lancs has been enforcing at zero in the past and so has TVP and Staffs.

Our guy - despite his huffings and puffings to contrary on his own forum and to my wife once on the PH site ..... has prosecuted at 44mph in a 40 mph in the past - dead on 10% - never mind the plus two....

As for 80mph ..... our guy does zap hard and sharp at Shap..... at 75 mph :roll: I know folk who are most annoyed about that! :roll: And - it seems to me that more accidents and not less are occurring here as a result.... certainly _ I am seing more little shunts around there regardless of whether the van is on the bridge or not.....

soren wrote:
Recent policing has been too soft on speed limits and I applaud efforts to take excess speed and resultant intimidation out of the driving culture.

Towns and villages etc have speed limits for primarily safety but also social reasons. Speeders in these areas should be ASBO candidates.


All of us agree that speed limits in urban areas and villages - and m/way road works should be ahered to. But that is another of our problems - we do not have the speed cams where they should be - in these built up areas. We have them where they MAKE money!

We want the Smiley Sid/VSM/VAS/LED signs, improved driving test and training standards . The speed cam's place is to police where it should be - urban town centres etc. And they are not being sited there - are they!

soren wrote:
I have a collision acquired disability which does not restrict my driving or mobility.
My two nephews have serious genetic disability and will not see out their twenties, never mind drive a car.


I am sorry that you have received a disability as result of a collision as well.

As said in post in another thread where you have been active - this family has had trauma. My wife was "lucky" - but got hooked on very strong morphine based painkillers - as result - no painkillers when she has the baby .... If she requires surgery - again - we have to be careful as to what type anaesthetic to give her. Incidentally - she did "her time" in a wheelchair and had to learn how to walk again, then she learned how to drive again - even redid each test.

One thing my wife did note from that experience - people used to speak to her very slowly and loudly as if she were incapable of understanding them - and people did not make way for her either ... but she had lots of fun "getting her own back" with people on pavements once she has souped up the motor on that wheelchair. :wink: And got an acid ticking off from both IG and the local plod for doing this! :lol:


But .... her family (large but very close) lost one cousin in collision with an artic truck and another in a plane crash. But we do not blame other motorists (or even airline pilots) for these sad events in our past. Nor do we see a speed camera as "saviour of mankind on the roads"

I am sorry that your nephews have a serious genetic disability which will cut short their lives as well. That cannot be easy to live with and I do - as doctor - understand this. My patients actually take my extremely bad news very well - but their relatives - they face living without someone they love very much - and they are angry at me for diagnosing this, and angry at their loved one for getting ill and doing this to them and they are also grieving - badly and bitterly. It is hell for them - and I know that seeing your nephews in this state is also hell for you and particularly their parents.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 15:14 
Offline
User

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:58
Posts: 46
Location: UK
Thanks MM
My sister and brother in law work tirelessly for them. He’s a cop. He blames himself at times for the illness, but the kids are a delight. He’s built a pool for them and takes them wherever each year. He’s already nearly spent his commutation, although it’s four years minimum before he gets it.


BTW I studied with a German lad at Uni 75-77 who’s now in Wales, Andar Gunneberg, Consultant Pathologist at Swansea. Delightful chap. Say hello if you know him.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 09:59 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 15:05
Posts: 1225
Location: Glasgow
Søren wrote:
Speed limits are present to protect us from those who forget to use COAST, also for those who have an inflated opinion of their own driving ability, and their ability or desire to concentrate all the time.


http://www.safespeed.org.uk/pr142.html

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/132/132704_deadly_danger_of_speed_cameras.html

So, what do you suggest we do then when the method used to enforce those limits is itself a dangerous distraction???


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:44 
Offline
User

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:58
Posts: 46
Location: UK
r11co wrote:
Søren wrote:
Speed limits are present to protect us from those who forget to use COAST, also for those who have an inflated opinion of their own driving ability, and their ability or desire to concentrate all the time.


http://www.safespeed.org.uk/pr142.html

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/132/132704_deadly_danger_of_speed_cameras.html

So, what do you suggest we do then when the method used to enforce those limits is itself a dangerous distraction???




Sort It!!!!


Can’t see it being too difficult!

Whats the problems.

1 Drivers speeding on our roads

2 & This!

Image
Copyright Safespeed

Not too difficult to fix.

In an area identified suitable for speed control, lets have loads of info on entry- signs about it, speed limit repeater signs saying you are in a camera detection zone. Leave the driver in no doubt he’s in an area where speed detection is routine, then do it covertly – specs and stuff like that.
Link ANPR to specs too – Get a BiB in on the job to stop the no insurance/ likely disquals etc.

Use Camera vans for high speed motorway stuff (90+)

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:13 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
Søren wrote:
Thanks MM
My sister and brother in law work tirelessly for them. He’s a cop. He blames himself at times for the illness, but the kids are a delight. He’s built a pool for them and takes them wherever each year. He’s already nearly spent his commutation, although it’s four years minimum before he gets it.


He should really try not to blame himself and continue as he is doing - giving the children as much family life and enjoyment as possible. Must be difficult for him as well given his profession. Are you Durham? North Yorks? Cleveland? Northumbria? IG may know of him ... shall ask - he's coming across to play golf with me later today...


Soren wrote:
BTW I studied with a German lad at Uni 75-77 who’s now in Wales, Andar Gunneberg, Consultant Pathologist at Swansea. Delightful chap. Say hello if you know him.


We have run across each other a couple of times - professionally ... indeed a nice chap.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:45 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
Søren wrote:
r11co wrote:
Søren wrote:
Speed limits are present to protect us from those who forget to use COAST, also for those who have an inflated opinion of their own driving ability, and their ability or desire to concentrate all the time.


http://www.safespeed.org.uk/pr142.html

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/132/132704_deadly_danger_of_speed_cameras.html

So, what do you suggest we do then when the method used to enforce those limits is itself a dangerous distraction???




Sort It!!!!


Can’t see it being too difficult!

Whats the problems.

1 Drivers speeding on our roads

2 & This!

Image
Copyright Safespeed

Not too difficult to fix.

In an area identified suitable for speed control, lets have loads of info on entry- signs about it, speed limit repeater signs saying you are in a camera detection zone. Leave the driver in no doubt he’s in an area where speed detection is routine, then do it covertly – specs and stuff like that.
Link ANPR to specs too – Get a BiB in on the job to stop the no insurance/ likely disquals etc.

Use Camera vans for high speed motorway stuff (90+)



Should really leave to IG to respond - but anyway - he says there are unmarkeds nabbing those OTTs on A1(M)...


But North Wales - Colwyn Bay -..... As you leave the Bay on the coast road (40mph zone) lots of spanking new photo signs - and faded to unreadable 40mph repeaters ... :twisted:

Approach to Conwy Tunnel - 50mph advisory - and NSL signs after exiting tunnel have vanished - but there is a Gatso around there.... :twisted:

Lancs - already linking ANPR to their forest of Gatsos - according to a report in local press from ages ago now.... Last ditch attempt to quell the awakening volcano eruption in the county over this ....... :wink: Has not worked - they are still bubbling - ready to erupt!

Use talivans? :lol: Our Steve C of the S/Cumbria Prats is very active on M6 at Shap in his little van ...... It cannot be me - but this section of the motorway seems to have a lot more accidents these days than it ever did before his van parked itself there...... Admit - M6 is "tricky" here.

Stocksbridge bypass? This road came under discussion recently on the PH site. Road should have been made Dual Carriageway - and extension on M67 - according to people who know this road "intimately" .

1996-1999 - road reportedly "accident free"

Road is 60mph - personally - would choose speed around this- anyway - based on photos seen on PH site - as road as hidden dips - and would liken it to A66/A65 and A59 as safe - but requires caution.

2000 - Scams introduced and currently SPECS. Road features on "Traffic Cops" fairly often as well - and apparently has notorious reputatation of being "accident prone" despite these SPECS!

Road is bit like A666 Blackburn/Bolton - road suffered half dozen accidents over 35 year period - but the crunches were all serious ones. (Was placed A&E around there in training - am St Andrews- pre-clinical/Manchester-clinical. )

OK - crunches not frequent - but road acquired local notoriety as result. Recently downgraded 60 mph to 50 mph - enforced by talivan - and it has had three serious accidents since the speed reduction - and if you compare with SIX over 35 year period ..... not good - is it! Hardly a good recommendation for a speed cam and limit reduction!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 08:32 
Offline
Suspended
Suspended

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 13:41
Posts: 539
Location: Herts
whos fault was the accident?

Can you reply?

_________________
Steve


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Calling Søren
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:18 
Offline
User

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:58
Posts: 46
Location: UK
bmwk12 wrote:
whos fault was the accident?

Can you reply?

Yes
I was FSP.

I don't think you'd know the drivers.


MM wrote:
Must be difficult for him as well given his profession. Are you Durham? North Yorks? Cleveland? Northumbria? IG may know of him

No I'm north of Hadrians Wall.
My sister now lives in South West. My brother in law is on the memberlist here, so I'll respect his privacy.

_________________
Drive in haste, repent at leisure.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 17:40 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
Soren

I will echo my cousin-in-law's post. Can appreciate how difficult it is to see relatives in a very severely disabled state. I really feel for you and your sister and brother-in-law. Like the Mad Doc said - it must be absloute hell - especially given that your brother-in-law has a demanding job as well.



North of Hadrian's Wall eh? Lovely countryside around there. Have walked the whole length of the Wall in the past ...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.042s | 12 Queries | GZIP : Off ]