Safe Speed Forums

Hi all,

I got two NIP's for speeding in Penwortham Nr Preston, Lancashire from a Fixed camera, I have been in contact with the police and obtained the copies of the photographs (printed on a A4 sheet)

My first point is that there is ABSLOUTLY NO WAY you can tell who is driving the vehicle and after lots of discussions with my wife (the other potential driver) I decided to admit the offence and returned the NIP's with my details filled in, however I also filled in the a section explaining that because I was unsure who was driving I was admitting to it. Today I got the letters saying I will be getting a summons. I called the office dealing with this and asked why? they said it was because I had put the comment on the NIP saying I was unsure who was driving eve though I was admitting to the offences there is nothing they can do, I pleaded with them to send a new NIP and I would fill it out without any comments but they said there is nothing they can do.

The reason I put the comment is because I thought it better not to lie as we do not know who was driving! Now it looks like I could possibly be victimised simple because I was honest, as we all know the magistrate’s court could do any number of things to me but if I had lied and admitted without comment I would have simply got either two fines and six points or possibly a speed awareness course, either way a lot less than the magistrate’s can give me.

Now you have an outline of the story I have lots of questions

Should / Can I plead guilty via post when I get the summons and what is the likely outcome if I also send a letter explaining why I filled the box in, I know I’m asking a difficult question here but any guidance will help?

Because you cannot see who is driving (rear shot of car and back of seat / headrest) am I best going to court and saying prove it was me?

If I do all the measuring of lines etc. to determine the speed will this override the reported radar speed or is it just a little more evidence on my side?

I’m sure I will have more question as I go on but for now simply thanks for reading this.

P.S. My wife is just about to finish her Law CPE and about to start the two years training in a law firm, so I ‘m aware of some points like “strict liability” etc. but not being fully qualified or being in a law firm currently she agrees taking as much advise as possible before decided is the best course, hence the post

Presuming that they are summonsing you for failing to provide the name of the driver then I would say that you have got every chance of a successful defence.

At this stage there isn't much you can do until the summons arrives, except try and gather as much evidence as you can.

The law stipulates that the keeper of the car has to exercise "due diligence" in trying to ascertain the identity of the driver. You need to demonstrate that you have done so yet still been unable to. So you need to investigate every possible means by which you might be able to identify the driver, eg any appointments you both might have had for the day in question, any petrol receipts, diary entries. Anything you can find to help form a sort of "paper trail" that shows the lengths you went to to ID the driver.

But if all else fails you just need to stand up in court and convince the Magistrate that you didn't know.

I actually think that the fact that you attempted to take it on the chin will work in your favour, as it demonstrates beyond any doubt whatsoever that you aren't trying to wriggle out of your responsibilities.

I also strongly recommend you collect up all the paperwork and correspondence you have received so far, and post a new thread over on pepipoo where you should receive good advice.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

An afterthought...

By all means go and measure up the site etc, but bear in mind that if you are (as we assume) going to be summonsed for failing to provide information then the entire speeding charge becomes completely irrelevant.

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Thanks JT,

Don't suppose you know the maximum penelty for "failing to provide information" do you?

As for the paper tail there is none, I have checked email, petrol recipts and just about anything I can think of, it's the lack of paper that the problem. if I had something I possible be able to tell who was driving

Oh yea, for one offence, the set of pics I got you cannot see the lines on the road for bright sunlight on the road, does this help at all or not?

Thanks for help so far.

I think the maximum penalty is £1000, but typically more like a couple of hundred.

Actually, the whole point is that the paperwork doesn't prove the driver. Print out everything you have that could (but doesn't) identify the driver. Also make some notes about why you would be unsure (eg that you both routinely use that vehicle etc), make a list of all the avenues you have (fruitlessly) explored etc.

IMHO the only way to go with this is to be open and frank with the court, go through everything you have done and do your level best to convince them that you have gone to great lengths to identify the driver, that you were never trying to shirk your responsibilities etc.


As I said earlier, it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever if you have not been charged with speeding.
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_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Stick to the limit, get the wife to do the same and HEY PRESTO!! no more nip's it works every time.
Alternitively carry on speding and buy a decent bike.

7 more point and you need one,

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

Bit hypocritical for a self confessed speeder, tsm?

Sorry, but at the risk of repeating myself: