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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 16:42 
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LONDON (Reuters) - A lorry driver prosecuted for obstructing police by alerting motorists to a speed trap won the backing of three law lords in a test case on Monday when they ruled in his favour.

Trucker Charles Glendinning was convicted last year by magistrates in Somerset of wilful obstruction after police said he waved a warning to other road-users about a speed trap on the A303 at Tinkers Hill, Stoke Trister.

Although the decision was overturned at Taunton Crown Court the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) took the case to the High Court, which in turn also backed Glendinning.

Now three law lords, headed by the former Lord Chief Justice, Lord Bingham, have again ruled in Glendinning's favour and have refused the DPP permission to appeal.

When the High Court considered the case in February, Mr Justice Owen said there was no evidence that any of the motorists warned by Glendinning had been breaking the speed limit or were about to do so.

Owen added that some people might think the police ought to appreciate the efforts of others to prevent speeding.


My bold.. nicely said and good on him!

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 17:09 
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So what happens to the poor bloke who got points and a ban for doing something similar? Miscarriage of justice there I suspect?!


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 19:49 
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And who paid for this victory for common sense?

IMO whoever made the decision to appeal the succesful first appeal should have to pay from their own pocket.
Perhaps that will deter them from taking such obviously stupid cases to such extremes.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 19:58 
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See article at;

Link to Reuters


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 21:24 
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Not sure why this has popped its head up now - the hearing was last October!

Full transcript of the judgement here

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 21:29 
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JT wrote:
Not sure why this has popped its head up now - the hearing was last October!


Oh yes. Now you mention it. There was talk of the CPS appealing it to the House of Lords - I've been assuming that this was the HoL case. But it isn't is it?

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 23:22 
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JT wrote:
Not sure why this has popped its head up now - the hearing was last October!

Full transcript of the judgement here

They're two different hearings. The one that you reference is the High Court, Reuter's are reporting the HoL hearing chaired by Lord Bingham.

If the Reuter's report is correct in that the Law Lords have refused further leave for the CSP to appeal, (a) the police can IMHO no longer attempt to prosecute anyone for warning of the presence of a speed trap, and (b) the old chap who got fined shedloads of cash and had his licence suspended (and an awful lot of other people) may have grounds for an appeal..

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 23:29 
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pogo wrote:
JT wrote:
Not sure why this has popped its head up now - the hearing was last October!

Full transcript of the judgement here

They're two different hearings. The one that you reference is the High Court, Reuter's are reporting the HoL hearing chaired by Lord Bingham.

Yeah I just twigged that too. What threw me for a bit was the incorrect reference to the hearing being in February when actually it was last October.
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If the Reuter's report is correct in that the Law Lords have refused further leave for the CSP to appeal, (a) the police can IMHO no longer attempt to prosecute anyone for warning of the presence of a speed trap, and (b) the old chap who got fined shedloads of cash and had his licence suspended (and an awful lot of other people) may have grounds for an appeal..

To be more precise, it would seem that any attempt to prosecute would ultimately be bound to fail, unless the prosecution could put forward convincing evidence that the actions of the accused had clearly enabled other drivers to avoid detection by temporarily slowing down.

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 23:43 
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JT wrote:
To be more precise, it would seem that any attempt to prosecute would ultimately be bound to fail,

Which is what I meant... Mea culpa for sloppy drafting. :lol:

JT wrote:
unless the prosecution could put forward convincing evidence that the actions of the accused had clearly enabled other drivers to avoid detection by temporarily slowing down.

I guess that as Bingham LJ is supposedly quoted as saying something along the lines of there being "no proof that the motorists flagged down were, or were intending to speed..." the CSP would have to "double trap" by clocking the speed of cars at some reasonable distance before the "flagger" and then check the speed again afterwards. And keep a very tight chain of evidence... Could be "interesting".

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 00:04 
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pogo wrote:
JT wrote:
To be more precise, it would seem that any attempt to prosecute would ultimately be bound to fail,

Which is what I meant... Mea culpa for sloppy drafting. :lol:

Sorry.

I wasn't trying to point up any shortcomings, rather just to further develop the point you introduced.

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 02:07 
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pogo wrote:
I guess that as Bingham LJ is supposedly quoted as saying something along the lines of there being "no proof that the motorists flagged down were, or were intending to speed..." the CSP would have to "double trap" by clocking the speed of cars at some reasonable distance before the "flagger" and then check the speed again afterwards. And keep a very tight chain of evidence... Could be "interesting".


This is the original ruling:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Adm ... /2333.html

It seems clear that had any one of the affected drivers been caught speeding then the conviction would have been held. Another important point is that in the older cases it was the proof of speeding that was actually prevented, so presumably only the officer's evidence that the vehicles were speeding was accepted.

To put into a modern context: Officer A is doing a speed check around a corner. Officer B is the other side of the corner hiding in the hedge. Officer B sees a car approaching towards the trap and his opinion is that it is exceeding the speed limit. A vehicle comes in the other direction and flashes the speeding vehicle (it is immaterial whether it actually slows down). Officer B stops the vehicle which flashed and IMO it would be guilty of obstruction. In the Glendinning case it was neither claimed that the vehicles were exceeding the limit before or after the warning was given.

Gareth


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 22:37 
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Again I find myself asking, What is one of the prime reasons for the existance of the Police?

To prevent crime.

Surely if someone warns that there is a hazard ahead, they are simply assisting the police in their exercising preventing of crime.

Coming through Thetford forest a week ago, there had been a nasty, with a car on it's roof, Fire, Police and Ambulance in attendance.
Once I had been waved past, I flashed at and indicated to oncoming drivers that there was a hazard ahead, and advised them to slow down, was I commiting an offence by doing this?

I believe they are wanting to have their cake and eat it.

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 00:17 
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Does anyone judge the quality of the driving coming the other way, and flash accordingly?
I flash commercials or single vehicles which might be above the limit, but OK for the conditions.
If I see a rep-mobile, tailgating or hammering around a corner when it is not safe to do so at speed, I just leave them to their own devices.
Much of the dangerous speeding around here takes place BELOW the posted limit - and Hollins Lane off the A591 has the skid marks to prove it!
It's tiny, but used by big artics to avoid going in and out of Kendal. It seems some leadfoot has met one unexpectedly - more than once from the rubber sign! :oops:

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