Safe Speed Forums

At the sites of Gatso's the fatal accident rate has dropped by 40% over the past 12 months.

(Source: BBC Local News-Look North)

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

This is a classic example of RTTM. Please read www.safespeed.org.uk/rttm

I wonder how much bias was also applied to those sites?

A misleading title if ever I saw one

Its a classic case of lives saved by people been forced to keep to the limit

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

No, it's a classic case of RTTM. Read the link, I would like to see your comments about RTTM

Probably two less fatal accidents than the year before.
What were the stats for the whole county? How many sites are there?
And I thought speed cameras were supposed to eliminate accidents where they're situated, so down 40% implies that they must have had at least three fatalities at the camera sites. You don't get two-thirds of a fatality, do you?
And I also thought that cameras were supposed to be situated at accident blackspots, so if all but a tiny minority of fatal accidents occur elsewhere then someone's telling porkies.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

By exactly what mechanism?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

the mechanism inside the gatso

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

It might not be purely RTTM. According to the Derbyshire Police website, the KSI figures show a 13% reduction - and they issue figures for each calendar year (Jan to Dec). So, I suspect that the Derbyshire pratnership are expressing some "creative accountancy".

According to their 2004 figures, 45 were killed in Derbyshire in 2004. For the reduction that the pratnership claim, there could be no more than 60% of that figure killed in 2005 (i.e. 27), yet a swift web search shows there were 13 motorcycling fatalities alone in 2005, which would mean that there could be no more than 14 pedestrian, cyclist, and motoring fatalities that year. One article on child safety that I found suggested a rise in child road fatalities in Derbyshire in 2005, so where are the pratnership getting their figures?

It turns out that Derbyshire is one of three counties (Leicester and Northants the other two?) that are currently participating in a weighted Dft survey. The figures that this survey are producing are from sampled data (IOW, they don't include all incidents). I strongly suspect that the pratnership have cited those figures without acknowledging that they're not "like-for-like" and so cannot be compared with the previous year in the way they are doing.

Anyway, that's what I turned up with a quick trawl. Not rigorous analysis (I'll leave that to Paul et al.), but enough to give me confidence that the pratnership concerned are talking verbal diarrhoea.

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Will

I should have known I wouldn't get a sensible answer from you.

So I'll ask again, by what mechanism does forcing people to stick to the limit save lives?

I probably won't get anything like a good answer now, will I?
Why do I bother?

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

That's 45 for the whole county. And, for them to claim a 40% drop at camera sites, at least 5 of them must have happened at camera sites. That's more than 10% of the total. Do cameras cover 10% of the total length of road in the county?
If that 40% was for the whole county, then why didn't they say so? That would really have made them look good, and given them something to crow about. So why did they just quote the reductions at the camera sites?

Sadly, people like TSM are so gullible that they'll swallow anything the pratnerships say without question.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Is that all? Pathetic!

Our local scamera partnership's famous Smithfield Street, Shrewsbury, Gatso achieved a reduction of something like 75% - without even being there!

In a wondrous piece of "Oh, is that my foot with the bullet hole in it?" PR, they announced that they'd intended to put a camera in Smithfield Street because of its poor accident record, but were unable to find a "safe" (read "profitable") place to locate it. They spent a couple of years fannying around without ever siting the camera and then announced that there was no longer any need as the accident figures had reduced by 75%. Pure RTTM as there was no advance notification of the intention to site the camera and no speed camera signs were ever erected.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

In 1912, 1,523 people drowned in the mid-North Atlantic.
In 1913 there were no drownings at that spot. Was this a total success in the policy of placing more lifeboats on ships than had been the case?

Of course not. It was an unfortunate accident, whch had been repeated numerous times before and since - a collision with an iceberg!
1,523 was WAY above the average number of deaths. and nothing came close until 1,201 perished on the Lusitania.

THAT's RTTM effect!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

I don't think tsm knows what RTTM means!

Guys, an excellent rebuttal of the scam partnerships announcement, proving beyond reasonable doubt in less than 10 posts that it simply cannot be true.
Now if only they would put it in the papers so we can get the ASA on the case.

I notice that TSM shut up pretty sharpish when it was proved rubbish.

Speed kills, this site appears dedicated to the breaking of the speed laws, why??

Is having a speed limit and making people stick to it o upsetting for you guys, if you dont want the fine stick to the limit.

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Why not put on speed limiters we have the technology only idiots break the speed limit

I've had better debates with our pet fish.

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Really? Please show us how!

Anyway, did you get time to read up on the effects on RTTM? Do you still believe that the speed cameras are sill responsible for the fall of KSIs at camera sites?

Perhaps TSM is after banning all private motor cars, indeed, all motor traffic. In fact with his statement 'Speed Kills' does he/she want to ban all movement however achieved, after all his mantra applies to aeroplanes, ships and trains ?

Does travel at or below the current speed limits therefore represent total safety at all times ?

What is the real agenda; I think we should be told.

Over to you, TSM

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Good manners maketh a good motorist

Of course he does. The guy's an automaton.

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TSM, if I get a spare week I might trawl through all the threads and collate the many hundreds of unanswered questions directed your way. Instead of repeating and re-phrashing the same old crap over and over, why don't you stop being so rude and ignorant, and try answering some of the perfectly reasonable questions many members have asked you? If you manage to produce some sensible reasoned answers for a change, then your respect level on these forums may even slightly elevate above its current level of zero.

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Why can't we just use Common Sense?