Safe Speed Forums

I think most read about the little boy in Middlesborough who was hit in a park by joyriders aged 15-16 in a stolen Metro.

His brave Mama wanted to warn parents of what can happen if their child steal a car und lose control. She decided to allow a photo of her child to appear in the papers .. he seemed to be improving ...she thought he would perhaps make it und pull through.

BRAKE applauded her bravery on this und proclaimed that "if people see the injuries they inflict - they will change their behaviour!"

Nein.

Perhaps these pictures may shock the decent. But the decent all blip over speed limits und do so safely in high 90% of lifetime of 17-70 years or so of driving.

These photos - I doubt if they even impact on the chav 5% who steal cars for cheap thrills. These like Howarth whom Mad Doc reported on here are hardened und do not shock over emotional und emotive pleas not to steal und indulge in police baiting for a chase.

Where I do agree with Mary very much though ist in her call for better measures to catch joyriders in action.

Und we know a speed camera does not do this. They either slow perfectly for the cam or the poor owner has hell of a job to prove he was not driving the car at the time. So perhaps we need many more reall TRAFFIC COPS - und we need them trained to driver properly und at high speeds as skilfully as possible und that requires INVESTMENT of time und cash into police und not Prats!

The little boy - Daniel Conroy Curtin - will live on in others as his brave mother has arranged to donate his organs to others in need.

The little boy was playing in a park - near a shared cycle path inside the park. He should have been safe .

The Rover Metro - driven by a 16 year old - egged on no doubt by two 15 year olds und one 14 year old - spun out of control und poor Daniel received fatal head injuries.

Daniel's mother made a statement saying that cars are not playthings und in the wrong hands they kill. She aims her words at the joyriders und parents - especially parents who are not even aware their kids are doing this sort of thing.

Indeed - und perhaps we do need to get back to old fashioned und disciplines with our parenting skills. Using the word "NO" more und not placing children on pedestals. We have never conceded defeat to pester power in this household und we do have a lot of ground rules over what we expect und time we expect them in when they go out with their pals.

Und we do fine our children if they break our rules deliberately



Daniel was described by his teachers as having "face of an angel und being very loveable. All at school are devastated"

From what I read in papers.. I think this ist a true statement und I think all who have read this story have nothing but admiration und empathy und sympathy und sadness for this family.

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

Except that one time in Bournemouth, but of course that was after they had set the car on fire.

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Andrew.

I'm sure the technology already exists to incorporate a remote "kill" switch that stopped the car's engine. Wouldn't it be great if someone's car was stolen and being joyridden and the police could just tap a code into a mobile phone and have the engine die?

...at least, it would if we could trust them to only use the technology in appropriate situations! Before we knew it though, people who flashed a camera would have their cars immobilised, then people who parked illegaly, people whose tax discs had expired....

That's the whole problem isn't it? As a result of the way motoring is policed, the majority of the public (despite what the Scamera Partnerships would have us believe!) don't trust the authorities as far as they could spit them!

They exist, I looked at one years ago. GSM for text message communication, GPS for location. Set times when it shouldn't be being used and it will snd you an SMS if it is used. Also it can tell you if the car accelerates too quickly so you can tell your kids off when they get home from borrowing it... Send your car an SMS to turn the engine off.

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Andrew.

What were the costs Ziltro? Any idea of current suppliers??

I'm quite interested

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Be careful what you wish for!

- What if car jackers hack the system? Fancy being a sitting duck on a quiet country road at night?

- What if -by accident, design or incompetence- the system is triggered while you're in L3 of a motorway?

- What if the authorities eventually decide to use it for completely the wrong reasons?

- What if they are trying to stop a clone, but actually stop you in a highly dangerous position?

And just how useful would it be once the real criminals have realised that the only link to the remote kill switch is the vehicle registration?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

It does't have to be that bad! First of all, the risk of it inadvertently immobilising you:

This argument was used in the 1920s and 30s a lot when people really didn't want to trust their stopping power to the new-fangled "hydraulic" brakes - they wanted a good solid steel rod (or cable!) connecting the pedal to the wheels. It was used again much more recently when cars started going to throttle-by-wire and computer controlled stuff like Electronic Stability Control and 4 wheel steering. Even now as steer-by-wire starts t obecome talked about, the same arguments are re-appearing. The bottom line is that if the system is made of sufficient quality, it can be pretty much bomb-proof.

As for the registration umber being the only link, I agree that would be a bit daft. Cars do, however, have VIN numbers and it certainly wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to give them plenty of other identification that could be encrypted securely. OK, I'm not saying that the system could be completely immune to being hacked, but if it was as secure as (say) a typical online bank account, then the number of people left starnded temporarily would, I guess, not be too bad a price to pay for being able to stop incidents like the one above happening.

As for it happening somewhere dangerous, well, I assume that the authorities activiating it from a pursuing police car or helicopter, would deploy it in much the same way as a "stinger" i.e. where the danger might be minimised. To my mind, having had plenty of cars in my lifetime that have broken down on me in inconvenient places, I do wonder where in practice, total loss of engine power is, in fact, as dangerous as people imagine it to be.

The remaning fear, incorrect use by the authorities, is the one I'm really scared of. In the current climate, I can really see the hysterical anti-car lobby successfully presurising the government into getting scameras to automatically trigger the device as you pass. After all, it's an argument we ourselves have used often enough isn't it? "How come if what we're doing is so dangerous, the plod don't stop us there and then instead of letting us carry on for a week or two"? I know we're using the argument the other way round (i.e. it ISN'T dangerous) but you know what some of these so-called "road safety" campaign groups are like!

Boy! This is a tricky one!

OK - so we stop engines and cause a "cut out"

What if the stolen whatever is on L3 on motorway?

I think I'd rather see police officers alerted to whereabouts by the device and have the "cut off engine button" in their control.

This seems to me [i] safer and better use of this technology" as we have to be aware of how this "cut off engine" affects another road user

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Forgot to say

The Curtin family have sincere condolences and I am sure my colleagues in Cleveland will endeacour to see justice is served.

A my cousin comented.. one very brave mother and I am sure everyone on the forum sympathises and wishes her well.

She will never forget her son and he will live on forever in the minds and hearts of all who knew him.

I do speak not as a police officer but as one who lost a dear pal in Ferdl - my cousin.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

As far as I know, the system that has been implemented across the border in the republic doesn't cut the engine out immediately, only when the car comes to a stop, for example at a junction... So that's that problem out... But then you're going to be obstructing a junction... Not as dangerous as losing power in L3 of a motorway I would add...

Once power is cut, phone call to the parents to plead and get power restored, promising to be gentle with accelerator and not exceed speed limits (yes, speed limits, not 'excess speed for conditions')...

If I remember correctly in Top Gear a while back, when Clarkson got his Ford GT, he had a problem with the alarm and tracker, and was RXing messages from the call centre telling him his car was being stolen whilst driving to the studio... I know that it was probably exaggerated, but it's something that could happen...

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Mike

Is the L3 cut-out really that dangerous? Although I can see, in theory, how it could be, I think we have to ask ourselves if it's any more dangerous than a police chase and / or a "stinger" (OK, not that these are used on busy motorways!)

As for the officers seeing the vehicle and having the cut-out under their control - absolutely! That was my original suggestion. There wouldn't be much point in stopping the car remotely if you couldn't see it was safe to do so!

The "Kill Switch" idea does exist, and is often merged into the Tracker/Alarm system and only operates at very low speed or when stationary - don't forget that killing the engine also kills power steering and servo assisted braking, so the idea of just killing the car could cause significant death and injury if applied without due care, although it can be applied on a modern ECU to gently slow the car to a halt - especially on a fly-by-wire throttle. Even better if it also sets the hazard indicators and locks the doors and windows!

However that will have zero impact on Joyriders for the next 10 or 20 years for the simple reason that they don't steal the modern cars with high-tech electronics, immobilisers and alarms - simply because they are not that easy to steal any more. However the large numbers of older cars such as Metros, Escorts, in fact anything from the days when engine management was relatively passive, and mechanical technology was used are easy pickings and totally immune to a Kill Switch, simply because it isn't worth fitting the kit onto a vehicle worth less than the cost of the Kill Switch.

and fires the seatbelt pre-tensioners nice and tight (oh wait - chavs don't bother with belts do they

Rather than cutting out completely, better that it gradually fades power down to idle?

Two options might be:

1. Kill switch kills the gears but not the stearing. Ok, not that controlled to drive in neutral but better than losing all your stearing control and you'll be able to stop safely except on the very very rare occasion.

2. (better) kill switch disables the accelerator but not the gears so you can come to a gradual halt.

Forget all the electronic options...what the fuck is wrong with getting the little bastards in to court and sending them down for such a period of time that they will actually think twice before they nick a motor?

And if you do happen to kill someone while behind the wheel of a stolen car, then it should be a mandatory life sentence to follow.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Gixer - think likewise - but perhaps a suspended sentance - suspended by the neck/ articles between legs etc

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Or a kill switch that did exactly what it says on the tin

Or give them a suspended sentance " from parts - neck and between the legs immediatly come to mind.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on